Rattle sound from r/h side of engine

Dennis.rose
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Rattle sound from r/h side of engine

Postby Dennis.rose » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:33 am

Hi guys , new to the forum and first post .
If someone can give me some advice please , I have a 1964 Arrow , when the engine idles to slow and about to stall , I get a deep rattling sound from the r/h side of the engine . When I rev the engine the noise goes away , has anyone got any ideas . Cheers,

iansoady
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Re: Rattle sound from r/h side of engine

Postby iansoady » Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:51 pm

It's called the death rattle. Gudgeon pin bores in piston worn. Mine was like that when I bought it (which I suspect is why the vendor "couldn't" start it as I'd have walked away if I heard it.

On mine, if I took the RHS cover off and waggled the alternator rotor back and forth I could hear it quite loudly. Needed a rebore and new pistons although I could possibly have got away with just the pistons.

This is mine: https://youtu.be/K5E6KUH6Zyc
Ian
1952 Norton ES2
1982 Moto Guzzi V50

Dennis.rose
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Re: Rattle sound from r/h side of engine

Postby Dennis.rose » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:48 pm

Thank you for your reply , not the news I was hoping for . I bought my arrow as not seen from 100's of miles away , as I couldn't see the bike in the flesh due to health problems , i was assured it had been overhauled .....are ariel pistons available or is it better to get the Suzuki ones , thanks so much for your advice

iansoady
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Re: Rattle sound from r/h side of engine

Postby iansoady » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:27 pm

Yes, I was in the same boat as you - I'd "sold" the bike to myself before seeing it. I'd been assured it was running well. After a 3 hour trip to look at it I did buy it. To be fair, apart from the rattle and the fact it was held together with metric roofing bolts (with square nuts!) it wasn't too bad and now is a nice little bike.

I used Suzuki ones (first oversize) from Keith on the Leader / Arrow Yahoo forum (which is something of an acquired taste). Seemed excellent to me. leaderman58@aol.com I could probably have got away with standard sizes but went for the rebore.
Ian
1952 Norton ES2
1982 Moto Guzzi V50

Dennis.rose
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Re: Rattle sound from r/h side of engine

Postby Dennis.rose » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:06 pm

I'll take the heads and barrels off when I have time to have a look ,any other options for Pistons , I appreciate any help , the last time I worked on an arrow was in 1967 when I was 16 , I loved that bike , had a lot of fun on it , I actually passed my test on it , happy days

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Re: Rattle sound from r/h side of engine

Postby simon.holyfield » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:26 pm

Welcome to the forum Dennis. While not a Leader/Arrow man myself (yet - it will happen) there's many folk on here with a lot of experience and you are sure to find the help you need.
cheers

Simes

'51 Square Four, '58 Huntmaster, '42 W/NG, http://ariel-square-four.blogspot.com

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Re: Rattle sound from r/h side of engine

Postby Dennis.rose » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:26 pm

hi Simon , thanks for the welcome to the club , already I have found help with other issues on this site , I`m very impressed with the friendliness and help offered , I`ll let you know how I get on with this dreaded rattle sound ,
cheers,
Dennis

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Re: Rattle sound from r/h side of engine

Postby Roger James » Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:33 am

Hi Dennis,
In reply to your earlier question regarding availability of Pistons. New old stock Ariel pistons are not easy to find these days, not impossible but getting harder to find, you could try Draganfly but they are likely to try and sell you Suzuki pistons straight off, at least thats the response I got even though I specifically asked for availability of Ariel pistons, however there is one major supplier I know of for Vintage Engine parts in general that stock Ariel Leader pistons, they are not new old stock but newly remanufactured pistons but having used them over the years I can vouch for their quality, They are PHC Ariel pistons, I believe the PHC stands for Peter Hepworth Components and originally they were manufactured in Italy. (dont know whether they still are)
The supplier is F W Thornton of Wellington Shropshire http://www.fwthornton.co.uk. You can view their stock on-line and they supply various oversize pistons for the Leader engine.
Thats the good news, the not so good news is the price, last time I looked they were £87 each but at least you get the piston, rings and gudgeon pin.
That said I see someone is advertising a pair of new old stock Ariel +020 oversize pistons on ebay for asking price of £200 a bit optimistic I think but an indication of where we are heading these days with the prices of spares....
The alternative of course is to buy the much cheaper reproduction Suzuki GT250 X7 pistons (genuine Suzuki pistons are not cheap when you can find them) but this does mean you have to buy and fit a new pair of little end bushes for the rods to cater for the smaller diameter pin on the Suzuki pistons, this of course entails having to remove the old Ariel sized bushes with suitable extractor bolt set, fit new little end bushes and reamer them to size that might entail having to purchase a reamer (available via ebay) if you cannot borrow one. (that said if your engine has the Death Rattle, and I like many others have had that on my engines you might find that the little end bushes are worn to such an extent you will have to replace them anyway involving the same amount of work).
One more thing I will mention regarding the Suzuki pistons, they are shorter in height above the gudgeon pin compared to Ariel pistons this means you lose out on a bit of compression, I have the tops of the barrels skimmed to restore compression although a lot of owners just fit and ride and probably find the engine pulls just as well without the need for the barrel to be skimmed. .
Hope the above helps in some way.
Jess

Dennis.rose
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Re: Rattle sound from r/h side of engine

Postby Dennis.rose » Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:49 pm

Hi Jess ,thanks so much for all that info , I think I will go the Suzuki x7 piston way , although a bit of a hassle having to skim the top of the barrels , and reaming out the little end bush , I haven't a clue how to do that . I think if I take the barrels and Pistons and little end bushes to a machine shop , they will sort it for me . Just one point to ask , if I use the Suzuki Pistons , it looks like I won't need to do the piston mod like on the Ariel Pistons ?
I saw the add on eBay for genuine ARIEL pistons for 200 pounds , which I think s over the top , I haven't had the chance to look at the Pistons yet , what's your thoughts on a possible r/h main bearing , thanks again for your advice , Dennis

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Re: Rattle sound from r/h side of engine

Postby bh.sprint » Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:33 pm

Hello Dennis,

Some more information to add to the comprehensive guide posted by Jess. As mentioned some people use Suzuki pistons and the engine performes OK so they don't need to skim the barrels. On my Arrow the engine was a bit down on power after installing Suzuki pistons , so as a temporary measure I took out the head to cylinder gasket, ( it measures .020'' or .5 m/m) used flexible sealant and the engines power was back.
.020 is approx the amount to be taken off the cylinder top but it varies from engine to engine.

Brian H.


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