ArielMAroon /Deep Claret

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Roderick.Bradley
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ArielMAroon /Deep Claret

Postby Roderick.Bradley » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:01 am

I have a Maroon 1959 NH to be re-painted & I wonder if I might raise the subject of Ariel Maroon or Dark Claret again. A trawl of the forum brought up the following suggested colour matches :-
- Leyland Hunter Maroon B, (Draganfly suggestion)
- Ford Garnet
- BMC Blackberry
- RAL 3007
It’s a pity bikes in these colours couldn’t be lined up & compared with an un-restored Maroon coloured bike at an Annual Rally. I have checked out re-painted Maroon coloured bikes at Rallies over the years. I have seen Ford Garnet & Leyland Maroon – very nice but in my humble opinion they are still that little bit appreciably different from the original Deep Claret. It may be that we all see colours a little differently anyway. BMC Blackberry is very nice & I might choose to use it but it is still not quite Deep Claret/Ariel Maroon. I don’t know what RAL 3007 looks like so, unfortunately, can have no opinion on that.

About 30 years ago someone in the business went to great pains to mix me a quantity of Maroon paint in 2-pack Epoxy for a 1955 KH and it was, indeed, a match for the original Ariel Maroon. Unfortunately, they ceased business a long time ago taking the secret with them! I do remember them telling me the key to success was to add a little BLUE to the mix. The trouble is I now need to re-paint a damaged petrol tank on that same bike without having the code for their paint mix so there is an argument for always choosing a standard commercially available colour code like one of the those listed above.

Originality matters in the sense that if a thing is worth doing, do it right. On the other hand, Ariel Maroon/Deep Claret was not such wonderful colour in my opinion -not at all like Mr Turner's Triumph “Duck-egg Blue”, for example – because it seems to have quickly lost its lustre & became dull and darkened (I can tell you this because i am the second owner of the above '59 NH). It did the Make no favours, I would have thought. But perhaps colour soon didn’t matter in a grey age of pea-souper smogs before the smoke control laws.

What do others think and which of the colour codes listed above is the best match in your opinion for the original Ariel Maroon/Deep Claret?
Rod

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Re: ArielMAroon /Deep Claret

Postby Simon.Gardiner » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:14 pm

Rod:

Have you found the thread with the advice that Ariel bought the paint from different suppliers so the colour might have varied even between brand new bikes? :twisted:

SG
'55 Huntmaster, '56 VH, ' 51 VH, '80 R100RT, '00 Sprint ST (but all those Ariel parts can only make one running bike...)

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paul.jameson
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Re: ArielMAroon /Deep Claret

Postby paul.jameson » Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:19 pm

On a Club visit to Selly Oak in the very early days, somebody asked Val Page what the correct colour for Ariel maroon was. His reply was something to the effect of "Don't tell me all of the parts on your bike are the same colour, surely?" From this, we may deduce that Ariel had the very same problem as you now have. Fortunately, it also tells us that if the new colour doesn't match to perfection - your bike is closer to original.
Paul Jameson
36 4G, 37 VH, 53 ex ISDT KHA (project), 54 KH(A), Healey 1000/4 (project)
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Re: ArielMAroon /Deep Claret

Postby robjameson » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:33 pm

I recently purchased a new old stock footrest, and the paint on that is a very close match to the BMC blackberry colour.

I also have a NOS battery carrier fitted to the VH, where the match isn’t quite as good, but good enough for no one to notice.
Rob Jameson
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1956 Ariel KH (LARGE project!)
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Bob.Murphy
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Re: ArielMAroon /Deep Claret

Postby Bob.Murphy » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:48 pm

I'm using RS Paints "Ariel Deep Claret", I have no idea how it compares to other paint sources but it looks Ok to me.

Bob.
My avatar shows the late Len Rich in 1970 with the bike I now have - a 1958 Ariel VH

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Re: ArielMAroon /Deep Claret

Postby nevhunter » Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:46 am

There's red in that colour and red fades. Get somewhere the light hasn't been for your sample. I recently obtained a 1954 motor with the front engine plates still on and the colour in the inside was quite nice and a more pure colour (not muddy) than most attempts at matchjng achieve. Marroon is classy without any black or white in it. No tints or shade. It depends what the paint guy has to mix with as well. A lot of the colours aren't pure.. Nev

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charles.bulloch
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Re: ArielMAroon /Deep Claret

Postby charles.bulloch » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:55 am

I compared a few pieces of original paint with each other. Some were identical to RAL 3007 and some looked slightly more purplish.

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Re: ArielMAroon /Deep Claret

Postby nevhunter » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:42 pm

As said . It's quite likely there are variations (as with Indians for example) Some of the Ariel colours are quite inspired. The Reds (inc maroon) and the greens especially. The wedgewood blue is hard to keep clean as is any light colour. nev

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Re: ArielMAroon /Deep Claret

Postby Roderick.Bradley » Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:24 pm

I emailed MS Motorcycles (John Chrichlow) who took care of the paint side of Hughie Hancox's expert Triumph restorations to ask if he could oblige with Ariel Maroon. I was expecting no more than the usual "Yes" or, more probably, "No" answer but instead he replied immediately & at length on the subject leaving me both amazed & impressed. His email is worth reading so I'll take the liberty of quoting it in full:-


"The first thing we have to understand is, although motorcycle manufacturers of the day were 'Apparently' offering a particular models in a particular colour, in practice, not all the bikes left the factory in exactly the same shade. Most motorcycle factories (I know Triumph did) used (At least) two different paint suppliers, who would have supplied 'Their' variant of a particular colour, there would also be shade variations of the same colour in batch to batch from the same supplier. In practice there would have been many original shade variations of a particular colour although mostly very similar.
I have original 'New Old Stock' Triumph mudguards finished in Silver Sheen that (Even an untrained eye) can see that they are 'Different'. The other problem we have is that if someone brought me a 50 year old tank to try to match the colour, I could only use the sample I had in front of me (Which would probably be faded or dirtied over the years) so although my colour may be very close to the sample (Trying to allow for fading) it may not look exactly the same as the colour when it was freshly painted. This is why we now see so many 'Variations' of an original colour, even though the paint was matched to an original finish.
Anyway! back to your bike. I am not that well up on Ariels, more of a Triumph man. However! I do have three formulations for Ariel 'Maroons' written down in my formulation book that I must have matched many years ago. One I have listed as Ariel Maroon 1962-1966,
The second is listed a Ariel Claret (I think I did an old Square Four for Jim Lee (Ariel marque specialist) in this colour.
The third is a colour I picked up from an Ariel Owners Club site stating that BLMC Blackberry (BLMC 3) was a good match for Ariel Maroon (These 'May' be variations of the same colour).
The problem I now face is that my paint mixing system is an old Cellulose system and over the years certain pigment tinters have been discontinued preventing me from mixing to an old formula. I have checked my old formulations and can only presently mix the Ariel Maroon 1962-1966 (The other two contain discontinued tinters on my paint mixing scheme).
This colour 'may' be the same as the older colour but I am not sure; you may have to do a little research. I would have matched the colour sample I had in front of me, so, although it may have been a variant of the same original colour, my paint would have been formulated to match that particular sample. It may pay you to contact Jim Lee, I think he does some work with the V.M.C.C. relating to Ariels.
I didn't realise that I could no longer mix two of the paints until I checked my formulation book, it must have been many years since I last mixed them. Paint may be available in a different medium e.g 2-Pack of Basecoat from another supplier. Take a look at BLMC Blackberry (BLMC 3) and Ford Black Cherry (Both of which I can no longer mix in cellulose on my paint mixing scheme).
If you have any problems, come back to me and I will see if I can come up with anything. All the best for now.
Yours sincerely,
John Chrichlow. (M.S.)"

After reading this, it seems to me that the most important thing is to pick a modern equivalent of Ariel "Maroon" whether that be BMC Blackberry, RAL3007, etc. which is repeatable, and to make a note of the colour code somewhere (perhaps on the bike?). Then if, for example, the petrol tank has to be re-painted after damage at some future point in time, you will know the code that will ensure the re-painted tank continues to match the colour on the rest of the bike.

By the way, in addition to Ford "Black Cherry" mentioned by John Chrichlow I have also come across in the forum archives another Ariel Maroon equivalent quoted by someone, viz: Mercedes Benz (1968 and later) "Dark Bordeaux" DB 573 (PPG brand paint, DDL 50666D).

What still leaves me confused is the mention in John Chrichlow's email of 2 Ariel Maroons, viz: Dark Claret & 1962 - 66 Maroon as I have never seen an Ariel Two-Stroke in Marooon.

Incidently, a line up at an Annual Rally of Ariels finished & identified in all these different modern Maroon equivelents as well as a couple of "original & unrestored" examples of Maroon Ariels, would be very interesting.

Rod

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Re: ArielMAroon /Deep Claret

Postby jim.haydock » Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:42 pm

To follow up on Paul Jamesons point, Keith Baldwin of the Lancs Branch is a longstanding member and he relates a tale about a visit to the Selly Oak factory when the issue of paint colour was raised. The reply was to the effect that Ariel's had three or four paint suppliers, each supplied a slightly different shade/colour and each batch from a particular supplier was slightly different from the last. Needless to say Ariel's would have bought in from whoever happened to be offering the best price at the time. So good luck in trying to match the factory colours as in reality no such colour ever existed.
Cheers! Jim Haydock.


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