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Re: Ariel tricycle

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:01 am
by Bob.Murphy
leon.mitchell wrote: By the way, young Nixon's first name is one of those English peculiarities: "St. John". It wouldn't be too peculiar if it were pronounced "Saint John", but I think it's more like "Sinjun". Happy to take advice from speakers of the Queen's English. Leon


"Sinjun" is right ;) .

Bob.

Re: Ariel tricycle

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:46 pm
by adrie.degraaff
[quote="leon.mitchell"]Bennett's book says of the Ariel/Whippet: "It is possible that Lance Newton drove the Ariel Tricycle 2 1/4 h.p.[/quote
No, the Ariel -Whippet is 1-3/4 HP aircooled, but one of the other Ariels could be 2-1/4 HP by more cc's.

The Bennet book is made later so the sign-in list must give the answer, if there was a watercooled Ariel they would have made a picture.

On ebay this 1901 components bicycle book with CC in a paralellogram like stamped in my engine so my engine is made by Components.

Re: Ariel tricycle

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:49 pm
by leon.mitchell
post by adrie.degraaff ยป Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:46 pm
"
leon.mitchell wrote:Bennett's book says of the Ariel/Whippet: "It is possible that Lance Newton drove the Ariel Tricycle 2 1/4 h.p.

No, the Ariel -Whippet is 1-3/4 HP aircooled, but one of the other Ariels could be 2-1/4 HP by more cc's. The Bennet book is made later so the sign-in list must give the answer..."

Do tell more. Quite a number of pages of the official 200-or-so-page trial book are reproduced in Bennett's book, but not the actual entry list: this is expanded into about 40 pages of the book. She could have made a mistake in calling the Ariel/Whippet 2 1/4 h.p., as could Worby Beaumont when he analysed the efficiency of all the vehicles in the trial (using average speeds for the various hill climbs, and the weight of the vehicle + passengers) and compared them with h.p. figures quoted by the manufacturers for his book "Motor Vehicle and Motors" c1901. He quotes 2 1/4 h.p. for the Ariel/Whippet.

Wilson's Ariel tricycle was also described as 2 1/4 h.p., and the quad as 3 1/2 h.p.

Leon

Re: Ariel tricycle

Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:38 am
by adrie.degraaff
leon.mitchell wrote:She could have made a mistake in calling the Ariel/Whippet 2 1/4 h.p., as could Worby Beaumont when he analysed the efficiency of all the vehicles in the trial (using average speeds for the various hill climbs, and the weight of the vehicle + passengers) and compared them with h.p. figures quoted by the manufacturers for his book "Motor Vehicle and Motors" c1901. He quotes 2 1/4 h.p. for the Ariel/Whippet.

Wilson's Ariel tricycle was also described as 2 1/4 h.p., and the quad as 3 1/2 h.p.


Thank you for that, there where arcooled 2 1/4 and 3 1/2 in April 1900, that's very good news.

So the new quad badge came in Aug. 1899, there where old badge 1 3/4 tricycle and quads in Aug. 1898, see libary.

We are getting near.

Re: Ariel tricycle

Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:53 am
by adrie.degraaff
New time line.

1898 March, the first (Beaulieu) tricycle arrives in Australia.

1898 Septembre, Ariel has a 1 3/4 HP (own engine) tricycle with the
engine in front of the axel.

1899 March?, now also forsale as 2 1/4 HP quadricycle.

1899 Septembre, a new logo and a 3 1/2 HP quadricycle, still aircooled.

Re: Ariel tricycle

Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 10:20 am
by adrie.degraaff
Leon Mitchell wrote about Msr. Serpolette's tricycle; (said to be a Gladiator, but I think it more likely it was a Comiot, but that's another story)

3 times the same frontforks so all Comiot?.

Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:09 am
by leon.mitchell
Hi Adrie,

I can't see any need for a "new timeline" - I'll stick to mine of some time back viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1316&p=7991&hilit=beaulieu#p7991 . Best not to revisit that discussion?

I have long thought that Serpolette's tricycle was a Comiot (rather than a Gladiator as reported - she was travelling on behalf of Gladiator, so it was certainly cheeky to represent a Comiot as a Gladiator). So, yes, the lower two photos look to be the same type of tricycle.

The top photo shows the Ariel tricycle that arrived in Australia in March 1898. Does it have "Comiot" forks? Maybe (I've looked hard and can't say for sure), but Comiot and British company Eadie were strongly linked at this time, so a British-made De Dion Bouton engined tricycle of late 1897 build could have used a Comiot-Eadie fork. The de Dion-engined tricycle that landed in Australia in March 1898 was certainly represented as "Ariel (late Dunlop)". Did Dunlop make it? Did Components make it for Dunlop? Or was it, like Serpolette's tricycle, made by another company and "branded" by Dunlop as "Ariel"? I'm not sure.

Anyway, here's another Australian Ariel Tricycle, from the Australasian newspaper in July 1901. The caption was: "A GASOLINE AUTOMOBILE. The above motor is fitted with a three-horse power engine, using gasoline as fuel. It has been run during the last six months over 2,000 miles, on all kinds of roads, the cost of running being about 1 s (? very hard to read) per 50 miles, with three adults. On a good road a speed of over 30 miles per hour can be maintained. It was partly made by Mr. F. J. Thwaites, who sends the photo." The tricycle looks 100% Ariel; Mr. Thwaites most likely made the "attachment".

Leon

Re: Ariel tricycle

Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:43 pm
by adrie.degraaff
leon.mitchell wrote:
On a good road a speed of over 30 miles per hour can be maintained.

That would be with only the one rider.

I can see there are no gears, no frontbrake, no watercooling but with extra petrol-oiltank-pump.
It's the 1900 model becouse of the tankbadge and the tank preheating is on the lefthandside, I am not yet abel to find out whay it was first on the unlogic righthandside unless it was easier to get the tank in the frame, being next to the extra petroltank connection.
On the left was also the flote in the way but that remaind there.

Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:02 pm
by brenton.roy
Fantastic. thank you Leon and Adrie.
These are wonderful photo's.
Would it be possible to have a photo with a few Arrows pointing to controls and items that would be of interest to those of us who are too daft to know how to ride a bike this old?
Adrie, surely a tricycle would be suicidal at 30mph on anything but a billiard table?
Brenton

Re: Ariel tricycle

Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:02 am
by adrie.degraaff
brenton.roy wrote:.
Adrie, surely a tricycle would be suicidal at 30mph on anything but a billiard table?
Brenton

I can answer that in june,....or not anymore.