1928 Ariel some wood and some tape ..

Anything about Ariels
Damien Towning
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Re: 1928 Ariel some wood and some tape ..

Postby Damien Towning » Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:49 am

Dating certificate turned up today. Looks like they were able to find it purely on the frame number.

Despatched To : Tozer, Kemsley and Milbourn Ltd, ( Exporters to Australasia )
Engine Number : (W51 50)
Frame Number: (W) 5928
Gearbox Number: QL 19129
Tax Number: Ex 4150
Tyres: 3.25 ( x 26 ) / Speedometer / Magneto ( Lucas ) Carburettor ( B&B ) / Model B
Dispatch Date : 6th Feb 1928
Remarks : Twist Grip / Leckie Sprung Saddle

Damien Towning
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Re: 1928 Ariel some wood and some tape ..

Postby Damien Towning » Sat Nov 23, 2019 11:46 pm

Found out that Tozer, Kemsley and Milbourn Ltd was still in existence until not very long ago before it got subsumed in to a holding by a larger company. I am not sure what they would mean for any records they might have had. Trail might stop cold at this point in my research and need to be picked up at the Australian end.

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Re: 1928 Ariel some wood and some tape ..

Postby john.deeth » Fri Nov 29, 2019 2:38 am

Damien Towning wrote:Dating certificate turned up today. Looks like they were able to find it purely on the frame number.

Despatched To : Tozer, Kemsley and Milbourn Ltd, ( Exporters to Australasia )
Engine Number : (W51 50)
Frame Number: (W) 5928
Gearbox Number: QL 19129
Tax Number: Ex 4150
Tyres: 3.25 ( x 26 ) / Speedometer / Magneto ( Lucas ) Carburettor ( B&B ) / Model B
Dispatch Date : 6th Feb 1928
Remarks : Twist Grip / Leckie Sprung Saddle


It's interesting the bike was sold with a speedo. Barkshire in "Black Ariels" states that the "1928 Ariels usually had the speedometer drive from the rear wheel....." I'm guessing it would have been a Bonniksen, Watford or such. Now there's a challenge for you Damien!
'46 NG, '51 VH, Current project - '27 Model C, 1910 Rex single

will_curry
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Re: 1928 Ariel some wood and some tape ..

Postby will_curry » Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:21 pm

QL gearbox wouldn't have a speedo drive, it's QDL with the drive.

If I remember correctly the QL has a static layshaft while the QDL has a live layshaft to
drive the speedo so it's not an easy conversion.

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paul.jameson
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Re: 1928 Ariel some wood and some tape ..

Postby paul.jameson » Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:30 pm

Gents,

Unfortunately, it is easy to misinterpret what is said on the dating certificate if you don't have it in front of you. This bike did not leave the factory with a speedo fitted, having checked the Despatch Book entry. I looked it up as a speedo on the bike sounded wrong to me.
Paul Jameson
36 4G, 37 VH, 54 KH(A), 75 Healey 1000/4, 52/53 ex ISDT KHA (project).
Former Machine Registrar & Archivist, General Secretary and Single Spares Organiser (over a 25 year period).
Now Archivist once more - but not Machine Registrar.

Damien Towning
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Re: 1928 Ariel some wood and some tape ..

Postby Damien Towning » Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:19 am

Been away from this for some time sorting out new house. Could it be that even though the bike left the factory in a particular configuration by the time it got to the exporters it had been modified? Seems to me that this is the specification for the bike as it was shipped. Not as it left the factory?

john.whiting
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Re: 1928 Ariel some wood and some tape ..

Postby john.whiting » Thu Feb 20, 2020 3:09 am

The speedo almost certainly would have been driven by a toothed gear clipped to the wheel spokes...and was also likely american Corbin or Stewart...there are plenty of pics of this setup on harley and indian sites......simple reason would be that US made stuff was a lot cheaper before 'empire preference ' came in in 1933.....incidentally ,a bike sold for 60 quid in England sold for 160 quid in Australia.....combination of tariffs ,taxes and dealer ripoffs....Henry Ford complained about dealer ripoffs in Australia........In my experience ,speedos and lights wernt common on Australian bikes before the late thirties......neither are bikes.....hard years here,humping the swag on the track .....you couldnt pick up dole money (10s) twice at the same police station.

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paul.jameson
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Re: 1928 Ariel some wood and some tape ..

Postby paul.jameson » Thu Feb 20, 2020 7:49 pm

Damien,

The only reason for the appearance of the word "speedometer" is that it is in the template for producing a dating certificate. I should know, since I was the person who created the template. In the case of a 1928 bike, the "speedometer" heading is redundant because the column in the Despatch Books labelled "Speedometer" or "Speedo" did not appear till after WWII. Before WWII, if a bike was fitted with a speedo it would appear in the "Remarks" column. The "Remarks" column for your bike reads "Twist grp, Leckie Sad".

As I have advised the current Machine Registrar, one should never underestimate the ability of Ariel Owners to misinterpret what you provide them with in terms of Dating Certificates or instructions upon how to obtain a registration number.
Paul Jameson
36 4G, 37 VH, 54 KH(A), 75 Healey 1000/4, 52/53 ex ISDT KHA (project).
Former Machine Registrar & Archivist, General Secretary and Single Spares Organiser (over a 25 year period).
Now Archivist once more - but not Machine Registrar.

Damien Towning
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Re: 1928 Ariel some wood and some tape ..

Postby Damien Towning » Thu Nov 05, 2020 1:41 am

Thanks Paul for clarifying that.

I am not going for a Concours d'Elegance award but I am enjoying the research of finding what is correct and what isn't.

I don't want to put anything on it that doesn't belong on it or that is not reasonable for it to have had put on it over its life.

I Have been away working on new house so as is often the case bits of the Ariel are sitting a box waiting for attention.

But it does now have a giant new shed to do the work in.

Last week I did pick up some more motor parts to.

The thing I really want to find at the moment to continue forwards is a rear mudguard.

I need to refresh my memory on this since I think I asked this already.

But is the rear mudguard for the 1928 specific to only that year?

Can somebody remind me if this is correct?

Also I hope everyone everywhere is doing all right during a particularly crazy year .... !

Damien Towning
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Re: 1928 Ariel some wood and some tape ..

Postby Damien Towning » Thu Nov 26, 2020 4:52 am

Picked up some Ariel motor remains

ariel_motor.jpg


And also decided to take a punt on some BSA girders off ebay which look fairly straight though I have to wait till they arrive here to really see if anything is possible with them ....

forks.jpg


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