Hole in the primary chain case

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Dave.Barkshire
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Hole in the primary chain case

Postby Dave.Barkshire » Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:51 am

Just got back from a ride last night and spotted a hole in the primary chain case. I'm assuming that this would be the crank nut making a bid for freedom and a failed tab washer. I'm not sure how easy it is to weld (?) and I'm sure that a replacement would be very hard to find so welding it must be.

Anyway, the first step is to strip the clutch and the nuts in the photo below are very tight. Does anyone know the best way to get them out? Probably a box spanner..... does anyone know the size?

ariel dome.jpg

ariel small nuts.jpg
1938 Ariel Red Hunter VH1
1930 Ariel Model B
2011 Moto Guzzi V7 Cafe Classic
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paul.wirdnam
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Re: Hole in the primary chain case

Postby paul.wirdnam » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:23 am

Dave,

The original bolts are a good fit on 3/8" A/F socket. Same for the new bolts supplied by Geoff Brown. But the Drags ones are 10mm head.
'28 Model B (project), '30 Model F, '31 SF31, '35 4F, '38 VB (project), '39 4G (project), '46 VH, '48 KG

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Re: Hole in the primary chain case

Postby nevhunter » Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:08 am

It should weld alright. Clean it well and vee out the part to be welded . The clutch basket bolts look a little ratty Impact screwdriver might be the go there. Those early covers aren't that thick on the ground. Good luck. Nev

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Re: Hole in the primary chain case

Postby paul.jameson » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:56 pm

I would go with Nev on the impact driver. If that doesn't shift them easily, apply heat. Loctite in its various forms can be released by heating to the appropriate temperature. Then apply the impact driver again. As Nev says, the 1936/7/8 primary covers are rare. But the shape of the cush drive dome is the same as that for the Square Four from 1937 to 1959. Again, these covers are scarce these days, but you might find one damaged at the rear end.
Paul Jameson
36 4G, 37 VH, 53 ex ISDT KHA (project), 54 KH(A), Healey 1000/4 (project)
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Re: Hole in the primary chain case

Postby nevhunter » Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:26 am

You could probably machine a new dome out of billet aluminium if it's worn too thin or too damaged. Put a small overlap on the inside to locate it and remove excess with a rotary file after welding. You won't be able to pick it if it's welded well. Nev

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Re: Hole in the primary chain case

Postby Dave.Barkshire » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:40 pm

Thanks for the spanner size Paul. They came off with a hard socket.

I now have the inner primary exposed and can see that the tab washer had lost its inner tang. The outer nut thread is not good but the crank thread looks ok.

Whilst this is all exposed, I have been looking at the parts and wondering whether anything else might routinely be replaced? Grabbing the gearbox spindle which the clutch nut screws onto it moves in and out around 1.5 mm which I'm assuming is acceptable?
Attachments
CrankNuts_small.jpg
PrimaryInner.jpg
1938 Ariel Red Hunter VH1
1930 Ariel Model B
2011 Moto Guzzi V7 Cafe Classic
AOMCC Member 3400

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Re: Hole in the primary chain case

Postby nevhunter » Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:06 am

I would like to see less end float than that. It makes your clutch free play "vague". You only have to remove the outer gerarbox cover to alter the end float. Can all be done in the bike. Nev

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Re: Hole in the primary chain case

Postby Ian.Taylor » Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:17 am

Hi Dave
When I first bought my VHA in 77 and started to remove parts ,I noticed a big glob of weld on the inside of the chain case right where the crank nuts sit.
They did a great job filing down the weld on the outside.It's still going strong today
Ian

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Re: Hole in the primary chain case

Postby paul.wirdnam » Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:11 pm

nevhunter wrote:I would like to see less end float than that. It makes your clutch free play "vague". You only have to remove the outer gerarbox cover to alter the end float. Can all be done in the bike. Nev


Having just rebuilt the CP box for my '48 KG...and a BA for my '38 VB project, I've been puzzling a bit about the mainshaft end float. It seems this is solely controlled by the depth of the steel kickstart ratchet pinion bush (3193-31 and 3194-33 in Drag's diagram below). Does this wear. i.e. does it get shorter in use and therefore increase mainshaft end float? I think all my gearboxes have the same amount of mainshaft endfloat as Dave's.

Or have I completely misunderstood how mainshaft end float is controlled? :shock:

kickstart.jpg
'28 Model B (project), '30 Model F, '31 SF31, '35 4F, '38 VB (project), '39 4G (project), '46 VH, '48 KG

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Re: Hole in the primary chain case

Postby ian.scott » Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:01 pm

The end float is not adjustable , it is totally controlled by the amount of play in the bearing. The shaft is tightened up on the spacer and centre of the bearing. Last time I renewed my bearing, it cut the play down to almost nothing and the clutch play reduced accordingly


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