Brake plate failure

pictures (or stories) of hideous injuries sustained by your ariel
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john.nash
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Re: Brake plate failure

Postby john.nash » Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:23 am

Paul Jameson had an analysis done of a similar hub that had fractured under broken load ...
The results are here:

http://www.arielownersmcc.co.uk/members ... alysis.pdf

Basically,the failure wasn't down to "age".

Were Chris Read's versions also designed for the full width hub?
My downfall is that all my machines are half width ...
John "Josh" Nash
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1995 Thunderbird, 1980 Yamaha XS650, '67 CJ750, 196-ish Ural M62 outfit, ''51 kH500, '47 VH twinport, '44 Ariel WNG, '43 Ariel WNG, '40 Enfield WDCO and piles of rusty scrap ....

Vincent.vanGinneke
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Re: Brake plate failure

Postby Vincent.vanGinneke » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:49 pm

Two pics of the 2LS Lester brakeplate.
Vincent

Kopie van HS 2LS (1).jpg
Kopie van HS 2LS (1).jpg (64.08 KiB) Viewed 2184 times
Kopie van HS 2LS.jpg
Kopie van HS 2LS.jpg (64.18 KiB) Viewed 2184 times

nevhunter
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Re: Brake plate failure

Postby nevhunter » Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:36 am

You have 2 issues . Safety with the existing brake and having an improved brake. 2LS is a good concept but the heat still has to be dissipated out of the unit. Some alloy hubs with cast in surface of cast iron are liable to distort with severe use. Several conical hubs I have been associated wih get a hell of a shudder up after hard use and sometimes it doesn't take long for that to happen The bigger the drum diameter the more pronounced the effect. ( out of round).
The failure part of this brake plate is not strong enough. There have been quite a lot of failures and I think that is more important than any other factor.
If you are serious about a better front brake why not go straight to a disc? We don't have to go through history again. If you want to stick to original and have something safe just beef the brake plate up and keep the original look. Single leading shoes can be made to work they just need relining fairly often if you use them hard. If I had a SQ4 with a chair I would want a good reliable front brake. Having the anchor point break out is one of the most dangerous things that can happen and It's going to happen just when you need the brakes to work. Nev

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Re: Brake plate failure

Postby klaus gerhard » Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:35 pm

Dear all,
I think this is a very serious safety issue because failure of the full width hub brake can lead to an accident. The old brakeplates have failed many times so far.
My personal experience on my 1956 bike is that I had the front and rear brake shoes relined after some of the old linings started to come off the brake shoes. With the new linings fitted both brakes were much worse than before. Even scimming the new linings was no big improvement.
Then I bought a TLS kit for the front wheel from Lester which was a big stopping improvement. The year before last the rear brake locked solid after a wet night and resulted in a shared off bolt that fixed the torsionarm to the swingarm. The brakeplate turned round several times until I came to a halt and in addition to this the brake cable was torn off. Luckily I did not fall off.
As mentioned by others before the original FWH brakeplate is very thin. The aluminium is very brittle in the meantime. Also the construction has no reinforcement ribs to strengthen the brakeplate and to avoid distortion when the brake is applied.
My suggestion would be to have new reinforced brakeplates made of the std single leading shoe design. Then all std parts like brake shoes could be reused. When using modern soft linings good stopping should be achiveable. In addition to this it would cost less (compared to a FWH version) and would still be safer than using the old fragile brakeplates.

Hope this helps in the discussion.

Kind regards
Klaus

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Re: Brake plate failure

Postby Vincent.vanGinneke » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:42 pm

Just for completeniness (huh?) a view inside a standard FWH brakeplate.
Compare this to the 2LS above.
Vincent
Ariel SLS FWH.jpg

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robjameson
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Re: Brake plate failure

Postby robjameson » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:37 pm

I have a hydraulic front brake, made by Lew Walwork. As far as I am aware, there has not been any issue with these, I had to renew the slave cylinders over winter and taking the brake apart it is a fantastic piece of kit! As I only did about 500 miles last year I cannot speak for the longevity from personal experience, however, I know that many bikes use them, and the one I have belonged to a prominent club member who did many a mile with it.

The linings are off the shelf for a mini, which means replacements are easily obtainable, and very simple to change - and it removes the issue of non rivetted linings from unglueing themselves from the shoe.

I'd post some photos but the brake is at my dads at the moment in need of a part.

From what I can tell, the design seems to remove stress from the original brake plate, transferring to an alloy disc behind it, so it looks authentic enough, and should stop all of the above fears.

Since this is becoming a topic of conversation, perhaps we ought to look in to whether the club would like to fund having some more made up if Lew agrees? I don't know if he still makes them for people?
Rob Jameson
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1957 Ariel VH
2016 Honda CBR600RR

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Richard Kal
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Re: Brake plate failure

Postby Richard Kal » Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:39 pm

Is the 2LS Lester brake still available?

Who is the supplier?

Many thanks,
Richard

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Re: Brake plate failure

Postby Vincent.vanGinneke » Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:01 am

Hello Richard, They are -as far as I know- not available at the moment.
You can read in John Mitchell's reaction a bit up in this thread that there are no plans to make any.
You could try a wanted on this forum or one in the Cheval.

Vincent


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