Gearbox oil for an NH

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CylvaBirch
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Gearbox oil for an NH

Postby CylvaBirch » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:58 am

I have ordered a set of gaskets and seals to do a full service on my newly acquired 1955 NH. This will be carried out when the garage has warmed up a bit!
I am puzzled regarding gearbox oil. I have bought Castrol XXL 40 for the engine and Draganfly’s recommended EP 90 Morris’s oil for the gearbox. However I read the label on the bottle and it is the GL5 specification that is supposed to be unsuitable for mechanisms containing copper alloys. Morris’s technical help confirmed that it should not be used in the NH. They recommend a Golden Film straight 40 or 50.
Have Draganfly made a mistake? I called them to double check and they confirmed that it is their recommended oil.
David.

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paul.jameson
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Re: Gearbox oil for an NH

Postby paul.jameson » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:24 pm

I am surprised that Morris's technical person did not suggest their AG90 which is what they describe as a classic gear oil. The EP90 contains the additives which are supposed to eat your bearings so that is definitely wrong. I haven't checked today but the AG90 was certainly still available last summer. Morris also do an AG140 and I think another, thicker still one. I was talking to the technical person about what to use in the rear axle of Madam's 1927 Standard and we discussed all these alternatives. Given the number of large gearboxes and back axles in old cars it would surprise me if these oils are no longer available.

If you buy online from Morris, remember to apply the Club discount code - available in the Members area.
Paul Jameson
36 4G, 37 VH, 53 ex ISDT KHA (project), 54 KH(A), 54 4G Mk IV (project), Healey 1000/4 (project)
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Simon.Gardiner
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Re: Gearbox oil for an NH

Postby Simon.Gardiner » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:55 am

CylvaBirch wrote:...it is the GL5 specification that is supposed to be unsuitable for mechanisms containing copper alloys


Hmmmm - BMW insist on a GL5-spec oil for the gearbox and bevel of the old air-head twins (eg my R100RT). I'm pretty sure there will be some bushes in there somewhere. (And I've had a number of discussions with people in various manufacturers' technical departments in the last 12 months - including Morris's - and although they've always been very helpful they haven't always been as knowledgeable as you'd hope.)

SG
'55 Huntmaster, '56 VH, ' 51 VH, '80 R100RT, '00 Sprint ST (but all those Ariel parts can only make one running bike...)

CylvaBirch
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Re: Gearbox oil for an NH

Postby CylvaBirch » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:49 am

This is the reply I received:

Hello David,

The EP 90 GL5 will not be suitable!
As you say the GL5 additive pack will attack the copper based alloys and should not be used.

The information we have points to an SAE 40 for the gearbox but if an SAE 50 has been used successfully then you could stick with that, our Golden Film SAE 40 or SAE 50 would be the options!

David

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Bob.Murphy
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Re: Gearbox oil for an NH

Postby Bob.Murphy » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:16 am

Simon.Gardiner wrote: BMW insist on a GL5-spec oil for the gearbox and bevel of the old air-head twins (eg my R100RT). I'm pretty sure there will be some bushes in there somewhere.


There is only one - the 1st gear pinion on the output shaft runs on a bronze sleeve.

The bearings are mainly 'C3' ball races (1 x 6403 & 4 x 6304), with a special roller bearing running on a steel 'top hat' on the front of the input shaft. the rest of the pinions are steel-on-steel.

I have rebuilt 27 of these boxes for 'UKGSer.com' members (I have a 1988 R100GS and used to have a 1988 R80RT).

I always use EP90 GL5 with these and haven't had any problems.

Bob.
My avatar shows the late Len Rich in 1970 with the bike I now have - a 1958 Ariel VH

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Re: Gearbox oil for an NH

Postby keith.mettam » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:23 am

I have always used what Morris recommends in my 57 NH, i.e. their Golden Film SAE40 oil. I also use it in my front forks, primary chaincase and engine with no problems. Works for me so I'll stick with it !
All the best, Keith.

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Re: Gearbox oil for an NH

Postby CFritz » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:58 pm

tested and trusted in my 4G and singles ('no leaks today, my love is gone away'): https://www.classic-oils.net/Penrite-Semi-Fluid-Grease
warm the bottle up, put it upside down on a funnel and hose to the filler, leave it for a night, et Bob est votre oncle!
chielzelf

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Re: Gearbox oil for an NH

Postby simon.holyfield » Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:15 pm

CFritz wrote:tested and trusted in my 4G and singles ('no leaks today, my love is gone away'): https://www.classic-oils.net/Penrite-Semi-Fluid-Grease
warm the bottle up, put it upside down on a funnel and hose to the filler, leave it for a night, et Bob est votre oncle!


And it doesn't drain down the speedo cable at the bottom of the GB gearbox...
cheers

Simes

'51 Square Four, Masquerading D3 Bantam, '58 Huntmaster, '42 W/NG, http://ariel-square-four.blogspot.com

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Re: Gearbox oil for an NH

Postby Paul Slootheer » Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:52 pm

Simon: And it doesn't drain down the speedo cable at the bottom of the GB gearbox...


Well Simon I have got a tip to cure this problem, so you can just stick to 80W-90 EP Gear oil with specification GL4! (which as far as I know will not damage a bronze bearing..
https://www.classic-oils.net/Millers-EP-Gear-Oil-80W90
Paul

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Re: Gearbox oil for an NH

Postby john.whiting » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:23 am

My advice is to never use EP oils in anything that is not in continuous use........any water or condensation moisture will combine with the EP additives and attack steel surfaces in the box.......causing black pitting corrosion so familiar to repairers........so stick with straight mineral oils.......EP additives also encourage jumping out of gear in boxes prone to it.


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