Twin leading shoe brake queries.

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Simon.Gardiner
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Re: Twin leading shoe brake queries.

Postby Simon.Gardiner » Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:58 pm

There are several threads on the Lew W.-style hydraulic brake mods, eg
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4184&p=26011#p26011
I'm intrigued on the earlier reference to using Metro brake shoes, being the owner of a pair of Metro drum brakes myself. The basis of the hydraulic 2LS set-up is a Mini 2LS front brake plate (near-side probably!), wheel cylinders and brake shoes (but you can see in the above thread that some have an alloy mounting plate for the wheel cylinders).
Mine has ended up with a lot of extra weight inside the Ariel alloy plate and the steering is noticeably heavier (I wonder if David has noticed that on his conversion).

The BMW wheel is for /5 or /6 bikes, I think the brake is the same for both, the hub might have different numbers of ribs around them (very important to get the right ribs to match the year of the BM!), more importantly there are 2 different spindle sizes, 14mm and 17mm. The later ones would be 17mm and that was my choice when I bought one of these 'cos it's the same as my R100RT and the front wheel bearings have done pretty well on that (hope I haven't jinxed it as reputedly they're a b*gg*r to replace).
There's a selection here:
http://www.motorworks.co.uk/vlive/Shop/ ... 0&spPage=1
Not cheap but it's a 200mm 2LS brake and Dick W. reckons it works pretty well (and mine seems to have arrived with an alloy rim as well)
I've not fitted mine - it'll need the later sliders from the 1" axle Ariel hub with some cylindrical spacers around the 17mm axle and probably a top-hat thingy somewhere to centralise it. (I did ask Disk if he had any dimensions for the spacers but I got the impression he freehanded it...)
I reckon I can use the BM brake steady but I think Dick's used the Ariel one (or made his own).

I've never had a grabby FWH brake, front or back (although I've only ever had the one of each). The hydraulic 2LS is a definite improvement.

SG
'55 Huntmaster, '56 VH, ' 51 VH, '80 R100RT, '00 Sprint ST (but all those Ariel parts can only make one running bike...)

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Richard Kal
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Re: Twin leading shoe brake queries.

Postby Richard Kal » Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:53 am

David,
Impressive work. And the end result? How well does the brake perform?
Richard

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Re: Twin leading shoe brake queries.

Postby allan.walker » Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:43 am

Thanks David.
You certainly addressed the inherent weakness of the standard alloy plate and have produced a great looking brake.

My difficulty is that my metalwork/fabrication skills are not great. To start from scratch, as you have done, is beyond my skills! :(

Whatever I end up doing with my front brake will need to be rather closer to an off-the-shelf solution. Making up cables, having spacers and spindles made, no problem, but that's about my limit.

I will be trying my tls conversion on my bike. The only thing I need to resolve is adjustment. At the moment, when I offer-up the plate to a spare hub, there is about 50 mm movement of the main operating arm before the shoes contact the drum (compared with about 10 mm of a spare, standard brake plate.) I need to see if the operating arms are mounted on splines on the spindles to allow some adjustment.

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Re: Twin leading shoe brake queries.

Postby john.whiting » Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:58 am

The angled sliding abutment is typical of Girling truck brakes,and gives them particular advantages over the Lockheed type of two leading shoe fronts,namely they work efficiently in reverse direction.Whoever made the brake shown had considerable brake experience......It may also be possible to weld in an alloy reinforcing plate,and a few ribs,thereby making the brake plate more substantial at minimal expense.

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Re: Twin leading shoe brake queries.

Postby allan.walker » Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:52 am

john.whiting wrote:The angled sliding abutment is typical of Girling truck brakes,and gives them particular advantages over the Lockheed type of two leading shoe fronts,namely they work efficiently in reverse direction.Whoever made the brake shown had considerable brake experience......It may also be possible to weld in an alloy reinforcing plate,and a few ribs,thereby making the brake plate more substantial at minimal expense.


Nice to receive some positive comments about the angled 'floating' ends. I did wonder why they had been made like that.

I will definitely give this brake a try, once I have worked out how to take up the current free-play before the shoes contact the drum. Of course, it may just need new linings; I'll keep you posted.

Regarding welding some reinforcing ribs to the plate, I had wondered about that but was concerned about causing distortion due to heat. I'll show it to the alloy welding chap that I use and get his verdict.

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Re: Twin leading shoe brake queries.

Postby david.anderson » Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:26 am

Richard
the twin leader is clearly an improvement on the original and was worth the effort.
David

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Re: Twin leading shoe brake queries.

Postby Bob.Murphy » Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:08 am

I spoke to Dick Warne and it turns out that the TLS brake on his 'HS' is a Lester Grant Mk I.

I should have known as I have one as well:

DSCN4431.JPG


DSCN4432.JPG


DSCN4441A.jpg


DSCN4442A.jpg


I didn't find the Mk I to be any improvement over the standard brake so spoke to Lester. He told me he had changed the lining material on the later brakes and I should contact:

Brake Re-Line Services,
Unit C2,
West Point Industrial Estate,
Penarth Road,
Cardiff,
CF11 8JQ.
T: (029) 2070 2900

The material is 3916 Asbestos Free, 6.4mm thick, bonded - with rivetted ends.

So I had them re-done (along with 2 pairs of Panther & 4 pairs of Tiger Cub shoes).

As you can see, I have made a mandrel on which to turn the linings to size (slowly).

Bob.
My avatar shows the late Len Rich in 1970 with the bike I now have - a 1958 Ariel VH

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Re: Twin leading shoe brake queries.

Postby pappleton » Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:19 pm

I also tried turning the shoes to size. Low speed, sharp tool, small cut. They still managed to escape. After an underwear change I wired the B****rs on!
Stay safe,
Paul
Paul Appleton '53 VH plunger, '53 VHA rigid - in many boxes, '58 H.D. pan/shovel rigid

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Re: Twin leading shoe brake queries.

Postby david.anderson » Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:36 pm

I have not had any problem turning brake shoes but was warned when I purchased the linings to wear full protective breathing gear. I asked do the linings contain asbestos and was informed no asbestos but that there were other materials in there that were just as dangerous as asbestos, and that applies to all friction materials. So treat the turning as if it contains asbestos and do a thorough clean up.
David

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Re: Twin leading shoe brake queries.

Postby davi.haysom » Fri Nov 29, 2019 6:27 pm

I built this twin leading shoe front brake a few years ago. I did appox 700 miles with it on my cyclone before I removed it to bring the cyclone back to standard for resale. the shoes are fully floating and is a copy of BMW and triumph design. the brake plate problems I have never had even on my racing sidecar using the ariel plate. So draw your own conclusions from this.


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