Ariel 350 1947 hard to start?

Singles, twins and fours.
wayner
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 6:18 pm
Contact:

Ariel 350 1947 hard to start?

Postby wayner » Tue May 22, 2012 9:14 pm

My ariel which I have just purchased is very hard to start. I have put a new lead and plug on which helped a little but is still very difficult. Is there any other things I need to adjust or replace?
Wayne Martin
1934 Cammy Square Four, 1943 WNG, 1934 twin port VH, 1927 Model E Supersport, 1971 Ariel 3, 1961 Triumph tiger cub trials, 1959 Triumph 5TA Bobber, 1962 Triumph T100, 1971 Yamaha YR5.

User avatar
Steven.Carter
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Posts: 3325
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:45 am
Location: Eastleigh, Hampshire
Contact:

Postby Steven.Carter » Tue May 22, 2012 9:42 pm

Here's a few things to try. Are you tickling the carb, how have you set set the advance retard leaver? Should be around 1/3 towards fully advanced. Points gap? Good compression? . When kicking bring the piston up to compression then just use the valve lifter to bring the piston over top dead centre. Close the valve and kick.
Or failing all the above, consider the bike scrap and give it to me :lol:
Steve

wayner
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 6:18 pm
Contact:

Postby wayner » Tue May 22, 2012 10:15 pm

Yes tickled the carb which tends to leak a little which iam not sure is normal. Lots of compression. By the valve lifter iam not sure on where that is. I've got a choke, advance retard lever and a decompressor?
Wayne Martin
1934 Cammy Square Four, 1943 WNG, 1934 twin port VH, 1927 Model E Supersport, 1971 Ariel 3, 1961 Triumph tiger cub trials, 1959 Triumph 5TA Bobber, 1962 Triumph T100, 1971 Yamaha YR5.

wayner
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 6:18 pm
Contact:

Postby wayner » Tue May 22, 2012 10:17 pm

I guess the value lifter is the decompressor?
Wayne Martin
1934 Cammy Square Four, 1943 WNG, 1934 twin port VH, 1927 Model E Supersport, 1971 Ariel 3, 1961 Triumph tiger cub trials, 1959 Triumph 5TA Bobber, 1962 Triumph T100, 1971 Yamaha YR5.

User avatar
admin
Holder of a Silver Anorak
Holder of a Silver Anorak
Posts: 878
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:22 pm
Contact:

Postby admin » Tue May 22, 2012 10:49 pm

Or put another way ...

Bike in neutral
kick it gently until it get's really stiff (coming up onto compression)
Now either carefully push it JUST over compression or pull in the lifter/decompressor and JUST move it over.
Now tickle the carb which WILL leak.
Move the advance/retard lever a third to halfway
deep breath and a determined kick

EVERY BIKE IS SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT IN WHAT IT LIKES; it will take pactice to figue it out.

If it's a no go, after a few goes, then pull the lever all the way to advance and do the same again but get your leg off the kickstart a quick as it may knock you back.
It should bang/huff back through the carbuettor; which is a sure sign of of over advance and a spark (good thing). My bikes usually start after that.
If you can repeatedly kick it on full advance, without any if this, then it's either not sparking or the timing is way out.

You can always pull the plug after exhausting yourself kicking to see whether it flooded (very wet plug).
John Nash
Administrator
webmaster@arielownersmcc.co.uk

User avatar
brenton.roy
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Posts: 2028
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:13 pm
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Contact:

Postby brenton.roy » Tue May 22, 2012 11:14 pm

Following on from the measured, quality answers above, if you have the technique right, then it's always one of 3 things;
Compression (you have said it's OK)
Fuel - starvation (blocked jet) or flooding. Is there crap (dirt, rust) or water in the bottom of the carby? Does the bike idle well when it does start?
Spark - is there a good bright spark when you ground the plug? - could be weak magneto, HT pickup dirty, dirty points.
Do you have the timing right and the points properly gapped?
Other than that, there is always Steve's final solution...
Good luck, Brenton
'51,'56 Squares, '48 VH, '27 Model C, R67/2, Mk IV Le Mans, '06 Super Duke and Ariel projects.

nevhunter
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Posts: 3746
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 9:42 am
Location: Victoria.. Australia.
Contact:

Postby nevhunter » Wed May 23, 2012 2:12 am

The 350 is heaps easier than a 500 to kick start. Generally the magneto is the first thing to check if the bike doesn't fire or kick back. ( as others have said). Check thet the points are clean and open up to about 018". Magneto's aren't the troublesome things that some make them out to be, but they have to be right. If theyare on the way out they usually fail after about one and 1/2 hours riding. It's hard to check the spark when the mag is in the bike, but if you can have the plug on the end of the lead and get another 1/16" extra spark with a brisk kick it should be ok for starting. happy riding Nev

john.whiting
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Posts: 1456
Joined: Sun May 22, 2011 2:10 pm
Location: Brisbane QLD
Contact:

Postby john.whiting » Wed May 23, 2012 12:31 pm

A sure fire way of starting any petrol motor [with spark] is some starting spray.Mixture is not critical,and once going,you can adjust the carby properly.Make sure there arent any high impedance components in the ignition,these wreck old maggies very quickly.Best test all components with an ohmmeter if youre not sure.Even sparkplugs can be supressed,but theyre usually marked.Regards John.

User avatar
john.nash
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Posts: 1088
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:46 pm
Location: Lea, Herefordshire. Mud capital of the world
Contact:

Re:

Postby john.nash » Wed May 23, 2012 3:52 pm

john.whiting wrote:A sure fire way of starting any petrol motor [with spark] is some starting spray.Mixture is not critical,and once going,you can adjust the carby properly.Make sure there arent any high impedance components in the ignition,these wreck old maggies very quickly.Best test all components with an ohmmeter if youre not sure.Even sparkplugs can be supressed,but theyre usually marked.Regards John.


You probably don't want a suppressed plug cap or a plug with a resistor ... (NGK plugs with an R in their name)
John "Josh" Nash
webmaster@arielownersmcc.co.uk
AOMCC No.4119
2009 royal Enfield,1978 t140 bonneville, '67 CJ750, 196-ish Ural M62 outfit, 1960 k750, ''51 kH500, ''49 soon to be Ariel bobber, 47 VH twinport, '44 Ariel WNG, '43 Ariel WNG, ' and piles of rusty scrap ....

nevhunter
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Posts: 3746
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 9:42 am
Location: Victoria.. Australia.
Contact:

Postby nevhunter » Thu May 24, 2012 12:26 am

This is a very VALID point. Most leads are high resistance "suppresson" leads and the magneto doesn't like being open circuited on the HT side. It tends to force a short circuit in the windings. Use a copper wire cored HT lead. Shorting the plug out doesn't hurt it at all as you would notice with many stationary motors which are stopped by earthing the plug terminal with a spring steel tab. "R" plugs are not recommended either. (As stated by John/ John, for the same reason. Nev


Return to “Four stroke”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests

cron