Adding an oil pressure gauge.. Sq 4 mk ii

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simon.holyfield
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Re: Adding an oil pressure gauge.. Sq 4 mk ii

Postby simon.holyfield » Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:47 am

I must say, having it in the tank is quite frustrating each time the tank has to come off.
cheers

Simes

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Re: Adding an oil pressure gauge.. Sq 4 mk ii

Postby pauldridge » Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:39 pm

Thanks for all those valuable replies.

I am leaning toward Peter Jones' solution of running the rocker feed off the oil tank return line, since I do have the Morgo pump as well. I am also installing the Dragan-provided oil filter, so will have to use new hose anyway (which comes with the filter).

I am assuming then I would just cut the external oil line somewhere near the timing chest, solder some sort of "T" with a barb to the lower end of the external rocker line and run a tee'd rubber hose from tank return to the hard line? Then I would be able to use the gauge kit-supplied banjo-with-barb at the timing chest fitting (the gauge utilizes a semi-rigid rubber/poly line down to the banjo).

I can't imagine the rocker shafts need anything more than a slight dribble to be lubricated properly, and I WAS having issues with significant oil leakage at the rocker box cover gaskets after installing the Morgo. Any further comments on this approach, and/or pics of similar installations would be much appreciated.
Phil Auldridge Austin, Texas - USA
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53 SQ 4 MK II, '72 Norton Commando, '78 BMW R100/7, '79 Honda CBX, 2014 Indian Chief Vintage

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Re: Adding an oil pressure gauge.. Sq 4 mk ii

Postby paul.jameson » Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:22 pm

On the twin pipe arrangements, the smaller pipe should feed the rockers and the larger pipe the gauge. On the cast iron models the small pipe at the top end has the same banjo and stud with 1/16 hole arrangements as on the bottom of the single cylinder models rocker oil pipe.
By 1953 and the Mk II Square Four the lack of an oil gauge means you have a single pipe from below the timing chest to the rockers. This splits with a T-piece in-between the rocker boxes to provide a feed front and rear. If you have the original pipes, the thread on the t-piece is 1/8" BSP (British Standard Pipe). It is easy enough to make another T to go between the two pipes and plenty of room to do it. The photos below are of the arrangement on my KH which is basically similar.
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Paul Jameson
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Re: Adding an oil pressure gauge.. Sq 4 mk ii

Postby paul.jameson » Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:26 pm

The crash bar assembly is a pain to make but works well. No, I haven't fallen off with it yet. At the other end is, of course, the 8-day clock.
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Paul Jameson
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Now Archivist once more - but not Machine Registrar.

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Re: Adding an oil pressure gauge.. Sq 4 mk ii

Postby pauldridge » Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:52 pm

Perhaps my oiler pipe assembly is not original, but it does not have a threaded "T".. all the fittings are soldered onto the pipe:
oil line2.jpg


I am still currently leaning toward tapping into the oil tank return line as someone suggested, unless somebody convinces me that isn't a good idea?

Phil
Phil Auldridge Austin, Texas - USA
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53 SQ 4 MK II, '72 Norton Commando, '78 BMW R100/7, '79 Honda CBX, 2014 Indian Chief Vintage

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Re: Adding an oil pressure gauge.. Sq 4 mk ii

Postby Bob.Murphy » Mon Sep 26, 2016 6:43 pm

pauldridge wrote: I can't imagine the rocker shafts need anything more than a slight dribble to be lubricated properly.


Careful . . Remember that the oil draining from the rocker shaft also lubricates the Cam Followers and Camshaft.

I suffered camshaft wear on my square after a particularly 'busy' rallying weekend. I had the standard gear pump back in those days (Morgo's hadn't been invented :( ).

Bob.
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Re: Adding an oil pressure gauge.. Sq 4 mk ii

Postby roger.fellows » Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:32 pm

That assembly looks the same as mine, Paul. Can you splice a 'T' into it?

Following on from Bob's comment about camshaft and followers, The drain from the rocker boxes to the followers and cams is via gaps around the tappet guides. If these are not clear you will potentially have dry followers/cams. The guides need to be removed to satisfy yourself of this.

Roger

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Re: Adding an oil pressure gauge.. Sq 4 mk ii

Postby paul.jameson » Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:46 pm

Drags sell a Tee kit which you could use to put the extra tee in. Without the joint which I thought was standard but obviously isn't as you oil pipe looks original, it should be easy enough to solder the extra Tee in. If you use a 1/8" BSP joint then to connect to your oil gauge pipe, you can always blank it off by putting a 1/4" ball bearing between the (male) outlet and a spare (female) nut. I carry this as a spare in the toolbox of the KH in case I fall off.
I too am a little cautious about feeding the rockers on a MK II from the return line. This is because the oil has to go into the first rocker assembly then up and over through the upsidedown U pipe to the second rocker assembly. It would be all too easy for the second rocker assembly to be starved of oil.

My KH has the rockers fed from the return but I have added a minor restrictor in the return to the oil tank. This is no more than a bit of double diameter brass rod with a bit of bowden cable outer steel winding on the end stuffed down the exit from the return oil pipe into the (1954) oil tank. These tanks have the return pipe welded to the underside of a flat plate rather than using the hole out of the side of the return oil pipe more commonly seen. Room to get the double diameter rod into the return oil pipe is limited but the did not prevent the returning oil from blasting the rod straight back out again until I fitted the bit of bowden cable outer (less its plastic cover, of course). You might fashion something equivalent for the "hole in the side of the return pipe" system - possibly a suitable diameter spring clip partially covering the hole. Return restrictor idea courtesy of Richard Thomasson.
Paul Jameson
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Former Machine Registrar & Archivist, General Secretary and Single Spares Organiser (over a 25 year period).
Now Archivist once more - but not Machine Registrar.

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Re: Adding an oil pressure gauge.. Sq 4 mk ii

Postby pauldridge » Sat Oct 22, 2016 2:06 pm

I have been in communication with the guy from whom I previously purchased a very nice gauge kit for my Norton. I have had a new oil feed stud (screws into the timing case) sent to him from Dragan, and he is going to use that as a guide have new longer studs
machined that can accommodate a double "stacked" banjo right at the timing chest. He says there will be no additional charge for the extra fitting, as he is hoping there is a market for the Ariels without gauges. The price is US $139 including shipping about 107 GBP at the moment.

I was very pleased with the quality of the unit I bought for my Norton.. here's a picture of that kit to get an idea what to expect.. I'll report back to the forum when I get mine:
norton gauge kit.JPG


Here is what the double banjo set up looks like on a Norton:
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Phil Auldridge Austin, Texas - USA
Visit the North America Ariel forum: http://arielnorthamerica.org/phpBB3/
53 SQ 4 MK II, '72 Norton Commando, '78 BMW R100/7, '79 Honda CBX, 2014 Indian Chief Vintage


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