VH mainshaft key question HELP

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alan.moore
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VH mainshaft key question HELP

Postby alan.moore » Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:30 pm

Taking my flywheels etc to SEP at Kegworth tomorrow to have the new big end fitted. Giving them the final clean and a good blow out with the airline I noticed that, whereas the drive side flywheel mainshaft key fully fills the keyslot and is level with the face of the flywheel, after blowing out some crud I found that the timing side key starts 0.379 inch down from the face of the flywheel. It is .364 inches long and butts up against the mainshaft securing nut. So in short (no pun intended) it is about half the depth of the bore in the flywheel. Also, whilst it is the full width of the keyway it is only about half of the keyway height. I cannot see anything on the shaft itself to suggest the key should be longer i.e no empty groove.

SDC10452.JPG
Driveside key


SDC10447.JPG
Timingside Key


Shining a light down the mainshaft oil feed and looking down the sludgeplug hole I can see through to the oilfeed hole in the mainshaft and can see a full circle of light so it looks as though the hole / mainshaft is lined up correctly.

So my question is: is the key for the timing side half the depth of the flywheel keyway and half the height?

John Nash posted some mainshaft images in this post back in 2011 but they do not show the key in question
admin wrote:FYI I appear to own all three mainshafts for singles.


If your reading this John and you can have a look that would be great.

I do not want to disturb the mainshaft if what I have is normal. My view is that the key is in place, the oilway appears to line up correctly and the shaft is being held firmly in place by the taper.

Cheers
Alan
1939 VH Redhunter;1942 RN WNG;1951 Triumph 6T Thunderbird;1970 BSA B175 Bantam;1986 Yamaha SRX600 single
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alan.moore
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Re: VH mainshaft key question HELP

Postby alan.moore » Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:26 pm

I think I've sorted it.

Looking at the parts book it shows the timing side mainshaft fitted with the same 'peg' that is used to located the crankpin, part 1190-29. Looking again at what I thought was a key I can see now that it is in fact a rounded peg.

Ariel1939PartsSinglestiming side mainshaft.jpg
Timing side mainshaft with peg
Ariel1939PartsSinglestiming side mainshaft.jpg (91.65 KiB) Viewed 1226 times


Ariel1939PartsSinglestiming side mainshaft peg.jpg
Part number 1150-36
1939 VH Redhunter;1942 RN WNG;1951 Triumph 6T Thunderbird;1970 BSA B175 Bantam;1986 Yamaha SRX600 single
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Re: VH mainshaft key question HELP

Postby robjameson » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:18 pm

Don't expect anything to be done quickly by SEP. I took my cylinder head in the first weekend in May and have been told for the last 6 weeks that it will be done next week. Today I finally ran out of patience and explained that I will be collecting it on Saturday, regardless whether they have completed the work or not.

I do not anticipate that they will receive a great deal more business from me, and I will be asking suggestions for alternative machine shops in the midlands.
Rob Jameson
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1957 Ariel VH
1956 Ariel KH (LARGE project!)
2016 Honda CBR600RR

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alan.moore
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Re: VH mainshaft key question HELP

Postby alan.moore » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:59 pm

robjameson wrote:Don't expect anything to be done quickly by SEP.


Rob,
Thanks for the heads up. I am in no great rush but 4 months is taking the ....

I need a rebore, assembly of the crankshaft and a repair to a rocker box thread. When I rang today they did not give me the impression there was a long waiting list, just said bring it in tomorrow. However, to be fair I did not ask how long it would take.

Will you let us/me know how you get on on Saturday. I may hold fire on getting it done and see if anyone can suggest an alternative.

Cheers
Alan
1939 VH Redhunter;1942 RN WNG;1951 Triumph 6T Thunderbird;1970 BSA B175 Bantam;1986 Yamaha SRX600 single
http://cloggymoore.wix.com/triumph-pre-unit-6t

john.whiting
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Re: VH mainshaft key question HELP

Postby john.whiting » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:08 am

As mentioned, ,the taper holds the shaft,the key is only needed for assembly.Many bikes dont have a timingside key,pin or anything,you just set the timing.I used to work for a crowd that kept work for ages,the manager was,I think,A pathological liar,who just loved telling stories.One of my favorites ,he would hold up the phone outside the office door,and say"can you hear that?Your job is on the lathe now."Or,"Its just been finished",then knock off early and let the lady in the office take the heat.Very amusing ,when customers would "get up him with an armload of chairs"as was the saying.Often customers would give up,and the stuff would lay around forever.When I started on my own ,I discovered the other side of the coin,people who had work done and then never picked it up.Or would send wife and baby round to get sympathy,and credit.

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Re: VH mainshaft key question HELP

Postby robjameson » Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:00 pm

I received a call from SEP today, saying that they are wrk on with my head (finally) but it won't be finished tomorrow.

Against my better judgement I have given them another week to sort it (largely because I will not be able to get out of work to collect it next week), so we will see what happens.

After this experience I will be thinking hard about whether I send them any more work.
Rob Jameson
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1957 Ariel VH
1956 Ariel KH (LARGE project!)
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Re: VH mainshaft key question HELP

Postby paul.jameson » Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:19 pm

To clarify, if I may do so. Rob's last run on his bike was the LDR. He dismantled the bike to find problems immediately afterwards and discovered a loose exhaust valve guide. The head went for repair early in May. He is still waiting.

I would advise members to consider other avenues for repair if they want to use the bike again that year.
Paul Jameson
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Former Machine Registrar & Archivist, General Secretary and Single Spares Organiser (over a 25 year period).
Now Archivist once more - but not Machine Registrar.

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alan.moore
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Re: VH mainshaft key question HELP

Postby alan.moore » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:45 pm

robjameson wrote:Don't expect anything to be done quickly by SEP. I took my cylinder head in the first weekend in May and have been told for the last 6 weeks that it will be done next week. Today I finally ran out of patience and explained that I will be collecting it on Saturday, regardless whether they have completed the work or not.

I do not anticipate that they will receive a great deal more business from me, and I will be asking suggestions for alternative machine shops in the midlands.


Rob
I think the fact that your request for midlands based motorcycle engineers in the 'Suppliers' section of the forum has had 90 odd views and only one reply shows that they are a bit thin on the ground.

I think SEP are probably a victim of their own success and no doubt give priority to their 'commercial' customers. That doesn't help the likes of us who take a job in once in a blue moon.

Hopefully there will be a few more replies otherwise it looks like I'm in for the classic long weight

Cheers
Alan
1939 VH Redhunter;1942 RN WNG;1951 Triumph 6T Thunderbird;1970 BSA B175 Bantam;1986 Yamaha SRX600 single
http://cloggymoore.wix.com/triumph-pre-unit-6t

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Re: VH mainshaft key question HELP

Postby robjameson » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:39 pm

I understand the point Alan, but I don't think that a lack of competition should allow anyone to become complacent. It is interesting that since phoning them last week and applying pressure, I have had two phone calls from them explaining their progress. It looks like a case of the squeaky wheel gets the oil. The job has now been done, and if I get the chance I'll collect tomorrow.

I have a friend who swears by Manx engines in Little Eaton, but his experience was of modern lotus car engines, so I had hoped that a forum member would recommend them to back up his opinion.

The first time I used Sep it was following the referral from a member of this forum, and I do value the opinion of the members here.

If you do send the job to them, please let me know the outcome, as it could be a one off issue with me...
Rob Jameson
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1957 Ariel VH
1956 Ariel KH (LARGE project!)
2016 Honda CBR600RR

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alan.moore
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Re: VH mainshaft key question HELP

Postby alan.moore » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:50 pm

robjameson wrote:If you do send the job to them, please let me know the outcome, as it could be a one off issue with me...


Thanks for the update. I agree that they should treat all customers the same.
I tried ringing throughout this afternoon to see if they would give me an idea of timescale but it was constantly engaged. They had probably taken the phone off the hook while they got your head finished :)

It would be interesting to know the reason they give / gave you for taking so long to do the job.

Cheers
Alan
1939 VH Redhunter;1942 RN WNG;1951 Triumph 6T Thunderbird;1970 BSA B175 Bantam;1986 Yamaha SRX600 single
http://cloggymoore.wix.com/triumph-pre-unit-6t


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