Morgo plunger pump for singles

Singles, twins and fours.
Paul Slootheer
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Re: Morgo plunger pump for singles

Postby Paul Slootheer » Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:38 pm

I fitted a new Morgo oil pump on my 1956 VH a couple of years ago. Untill now it works well. The Morgo item does have increased oil flow, but to be honest a 'normal' Ariel item will just be fine! :D

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robjameson
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Re: Morgo plunger pump for singles

Postby robjameson » Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:19 pm

Thanks for all the comments, and thanks for the offer John.

I’m not sure if I’m over reacting, I do a 10 mile trip each way for work, and I’m dropping oil on the drive, plus the sidestand is well oiled.

I do think that the problem is better than it used to be. My main concern is that on longer runs in the past, I’ve breathed out around half of the contents of the oil tank, which I do not want to happen on the way to Germany, hence the possible peace of mind of a Morgo, or a good original pump.
Rob Jameson
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1957 Ariel VH
1956 Ariel KH (LARGE project!)
2016 Honda CBR600RR

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Re: Morgo plunger pump for singles

Postby nevhunter » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:03 am

The only trouble I've had with any original set up is when the return fails to return and the engine fills with oil and you quickly know about it as there's a lot of smoke for the people behind and the engine goes pretty flat power wise. The morgo pumps are well made but after much time and research the idea of a MUCH higher flow is not the way to go in my opinion )as well as that of a few others I respect) with the Ariel SINGLES. of the Val Page type. It does apply generally to all singles and high performing V twins where both pistons go up and down more or less together, and the sump volume is not large and a NOT lot of thought has gone into designing the place where the oil is returned from.
I've run several oversize (Triumph) based pumps on my VCH which I've ridden now since 1972, when I first got it going. You can work out how long. I don't want to remind myself. Those oversize pumps have given me more trouble by far than the total of problems I've ever had with oiling on any bikes. Ariels were known as the "Poor man's JAP" in Australia and always popular for clubman work as they are tough enough and respond well to tuning. In my time I've spoken to many Ariel "racers" and as far as I can recall the overoiling problem was well known amongst the go fast group... On "rally's" these days, there seems to be more Ariel single oil pump problems than I ever recall in the past. The ones I've encountered with problems have generally had the wrong springs fitted after being overhauled..

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Re: Morgo plunger pump for singles

Postby david.anderson » Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:31 am

Rob
Oil loss out the crankcase breather can be a problem with high compression, in fact anything over 7.5 to 1 may be a problem. The blow by is much more than you expect even with a new bore and rings.
Many years ago I fitted a 10.5 piston which resulted in a continual flow of oil out the breather. My fix at that time was to blank the crankcase breather and rely on the timing chest breather. After seeking some advice I reinstated the crankcase breather but turned it toward the rear and fitted an oil catch can from which I extended the breather to act as a rear chain oiler. But as the catch can that I fitted was small I found that it filled too quickly so I again blanked the crankcase breather.
I have just built a short stroke VH that is running 10 to 1. Based on past experience I blanked the crankcase breather before starting the bike and just have a reed PCV fitted to the timing chest breather.
At 9 to 1 I normally run the breather horizontal to a pcv valve and extend the breather to oil the rear chain.
David

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Re: Morgo plunger pump for singles

Postby nevhunter » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:25 am

The rocker boxes would be a good place to take fumes from would it not? The 54 0n tapping from the drive side crankcase is not the best place. You are always going to get a fair bit of oil with it. The no oil ring pistons have 3 compression rings which may help. (It does with diesels). Having very effective oil rings like the 3 piece stainless type deprives the comp rings of oil and causes more blowby . When you hone the bore fix a thick steel plate to the top of the cylinder and torque bolts to the torque used for the head and that will reduce distortion effect near the important part of the cylinder (The first one inch where it's all happening.). Side valves distort much more than OHV types as the area near the port expands away from the cylinder axis. Having low compression ratios tends to counteract this. When sleeved a real hot spot can occur. Sleeving side valves is not too successful sometimes. I try to avoid it if I can. Nev

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Re: Morgo plunger pump for singles

Postby Paul Slootheer » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:34 am

As far as I can remember the Morgo oil pump does have increased oil flow, but not that much. I never experienced oil loss, but my VH is fitted with a flat piston so is running quite relaxed. As David states high compression (and therfore higher power output) is allways at a price... As Keith brings up: check the timing case is must be ''dead flat'' or make use of thicker or double washer. Also check the oil pick up pipe from the sump, just take a piece of hose, slide it over the pick up pipe and put the hose is a jar with oil to check it pumps back.

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Re: Morgo plunger pump for singles

Postby nevhunter » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:52 am

The thing to remember with the original Ariel Plunger pump is the work is done by the very end of the piston and the part just near the holes in the body. The plunger fit may appear good but not seal very well when running with the oil hot (and thin). The actual effective stroke is just a few millimetres at best. After the port openings are closed off, like a two stroke cylinder is where it's working... These two areas wear most and a bit of corrosion is not unknown when stuff sits around for years. A pretty good fit is best and most reliable. The brass or bronze bodies last well but remachining them is a bit trick. A single point boring tool is the best. I've tried solid reamers with not too convincing results so far. Set up on the threads of the plugs with a threaded mandrel. They are on the same centre as the bores. Turn a new thread each time or use a collet set up for accuracy. How would life be without all these challenges?. Nev

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Re: Morgo plunger pump for singles

Postby robjameson » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:30 pm

Interesting comments, I always knew that running a 9 to 1 piston would give other issues, but for me it’s worth the extra power.

I think I might start by diverting the breather to the chain, as I have a ferc, that might work quite nicely.

If I’m still not happy then perhaps a good Ariel pump or a Morgo are the next options.

Thanks everyone, most helpful.
Rob Jameson
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1957 Ariel VH
1956 Ariel KH (LARGE project!)
2016 Honda CBR600RR


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