buying a square 4

Singles, twins and fours.
william shortall
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:51 pm
Contact:

buying a square 4

Postby william shortall » Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:29 am

I am about to purchase a square 4 it has the larger style oil tank with alloy engine twin pipe. it came from Guernsey originally the guy says its 1954 i have not seen any docs yet . Guernsey say that the reg is being used now as they dont leave the island
Did the larger style oil tank bike have a twin pipe motor
any information greatley recieved

User avatar
simon.holyfield
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Posts: 3529
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:16 pm
Location: Norfolk
Contact:

Re: buying a square 4

Postby simon.holyfield » Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:40 am

This might help:

http://ariel-square-four.blogspot.com/p/1.html

When you say 'twin pipe' i guess you mean two each side? This 'four pipe' engine came in 1953; the larger oil tank came in 1954.

Easiest option is to ask for the letters from the engine and frame numbers and we can easily date it for you. It's worth having the gearbox number as well.
cheers

Simes

'51 Square Four,
'58 Huntmaster,
'42 W/NG,
'78 CX500
http://ariel-square-four.blogspot.com

william shortall
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:51 pm
Contact:

Re: buying a square 4

Postby william shortall » Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:06 pm

Thanks for your reply but it has only two pipes one either side , he wants £7000 for it it has not run for three years its not a pile of rust but is not immaculate in any stretch either , does that sound reasonable

User avatar
simon.holyfield
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Posts: 3529
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:16 pm
Location: Norfolk
Contact:

Re: buying a square 4

Postby simon.holyfield » Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:47 pm

Ah OK. So that is what we call the Mk1 engine, and it was introduced in 1949, lasting until December 1952 - so it's earlier than the engine that would have originally have been fitted to the bike you are looking at.

As to value, people are asking £10-15,000 for a Mk1 in good running condition, but what they sell for is anybody's guess. As a guide, I bought mine about 7 years ago, in bits, for £3000; I've spent another £7000 or so getting it up and running, and you MUST take the engine down and check the sludge traps before starting it up, even for a short time unless you know the machine has been in regular use - so that has to go into the budget. The value of the machine you are looking at very much depends on its condition and the presence of a number of key parts, such as mudguards, wheels & tanks.

Can you post a picture?
cheers

Simes

'51 Square Four,
'58 Huntmaster,
'42 W/NG,
'78 CX500
http://ariel-square-four.blogspot.com

Simon.Gardiner
Holder of a Silver Anorak
Holder of a Silver Anorak
Posts: 870
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:37 pm
Location: South West (Bristol-ish)
Contact:

Re: buying a square 4

Postby Simon.Gardiner » Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:22 pm

You can date engine/frame/gearbox from the info here if you can get the numbers
https://www.draganfly.co.uk/data/pdf/ariel_vin.pdf

SG
'55 Huntmaster, '56 VH, ' 51 VH, '80 R100RT, '00 Sprint ST (but all those Ariel parts can only make one running bike...)

william shortall
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:51 pm
Contact:

Re: buying a square 4

Postby william shortall » Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:58 pm

Unfortunately my phone wont import the pictures . It looks like it has been restored some time ago, and it is all there wheel rims are a bit pitted but its not in bad condition really considering , my concern was having the earlier engine would it be an issue .
So you would advise before starting to pull it down even if the oil was returning as i have not heard it run yet , and he said it was being used three years ago.
However thank you very much for your time in replying i have always wanted one as my dad had one years ago and the chair fell off while he was riding it
Cheers
BIll

User avatar
simon.holyfield
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Posts: 3529
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:16 pm
Location: Norfolk
Contact:

Re: buying a square 4

Postby simon.holyfield » Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:33 pm

If you can email the pictures, Bill, I'm happy to post them to the forum for you.

The issue is not about the oil returning - it's the supply to the big ends, particularly number 3. The oil ways are very small and get blocked with carbon, historically; once they are clean, and a modern oil used its no longer a problem but if they are left unchecked you may lose the supply to a big end - the engine will destroy itself, cases, rods and all.

It's not a complicated engine to strip.
cheers

Simes

'51 Square Four,
'58 Huntmaster,
'42 W/NG,
'78 CX500
http://ariel-square-four.blogspot.com

User avatar
chris.shearwood
Holder of a Waxed Cotton Anorak
Holder of a Waxed Cotton Anorak
Posts: 432
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:28 pm
Location: Sutton, Quebec, Canada
Contact:

Re: buying a square 4

Postby chris.shearwood » Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:18 pm

william shortall wrote:So you would advise before starting to pull it down even if the oil was returning as i have not heard it run yet , and he said it was being used three years ago.


I wouldn't even think of starting it before cleaning the crankshaft sludge traps.
1946 4G, 1950 NG and 1951 VH

User avatar
Bob.Murphy
Holder of a Silver Anorak
Holder of a Silver Anorak
Posts: 883
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:32 pm
Location: Kirkliston, on the West side of Edinburgh.
Contact:

Re: buying a square 4

Postby Bob.Murphy » Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:36 pm

Good luck with the Square Four (you will need a special Gear Puller/Pusher set to get the coupling gears off/on).

This wasn't due to a blocked oil way, but it shows what can happen when a rod lets go for whatever reason:

DSCN8246.JPG


Forewarned if forearmed ;) .

Bob.
My avatar shows the late Len Rich in 1970 with the bike I now have - a 1958 Ariel VH


Return to “Four stroke”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests