Rebuilt 1939 VH wet sumping

Singles, twins and fours.
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alan.moore
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Rebuilt 1939 VH wet sumping

Postby alan.moore » Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:48 pm

I know this has been covered in the past but can i just run the symptoms past you chaps again.

Engine is fully rebuilt (new piston, rebore, crankpin, all new bearings). Everything clinically clean and flushed through, new recon oil pump from Drags which I stripped and cleaned out before fitting. Oil pipes all new, oil tank spotless. New pump gaskets from single spares and the additional washer fitted on the return side. Oil is SAE30 (recommended by Mr Jameson senior for running in)

When I first started it up last November everything was fine, no smoke ran lovely. Bike has been sitting since then :o and when i came to start it today it bust into life first kick....but the exhaust smoke was incredible. Oil was returning to the tank in a continuous strong steady stream, there were only a few drips from the timing case breather pipes. Oil pressure gauge initially topped out at 15psi on a fast tickover. After what seemed an age (probably five to ten minutes) the steady return of oil became bubbles and the smoking dropped off. As it warmed up oil pressure gauge was 5 psi at tickover.

So it looks like the sump filled up with oil while it has been standing. Previous posts say that with a plunger pump this should not happen, so in my mind there may be a bit of dirt in the supply side seating in the pump or the recon pump is duff in that area. Before I go off and start stripping things down am I missing anything i.e is there any other way the sump can fill even if the pump ball valve is OK

I have the early setup so no additional valve behind the pump.

Cheers
Alan
1939 VH Redhunter;1942 RN WNG;1951 Triumph 6T Thunderbird;1970 BSA B175 Bantam;1986 Yamaha SRX600 single
http://cloggymoore.wix.com/triumph-pre-unit-6t

Simon.Gardiner
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Re: Rebuilt 1939 VH wet sumping

Postby Simon.Gardiner » Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:25 pm

Alan:
You can get an amount of oil gathering in the sump as it drains from reservoirs like the timing chest area, while the bike is standing. I've never had an Ariel single wet-sump as such but it does sound like yours ain't quite right if it takes that long (5-10 min) to clear.
Difficult to know what to advise; I'd say the return is obviously fine and the fact that you get an oil pressure shows that the feed side is pumping also (as opposed to the oil just seeping through under gravity) .
I'd probably run it and monitor closely to establish exactly what's going on over a little time, but for peace of mind - and as the oil pump is pretty easy to get to - you may well want to pull it off and run a couple of checks on it.

(Not a massive amount of help there I'm afraid!)

SG
'55 Huntmaster, '56 VH, ' 51 VH, '80 R100RT, '00 Sprint ST (but all those Ariel parts can only make one running bike...)

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alan.moore
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Re: Rebuilt 1939 VH wet sumping

Postby alan.moore » Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:09 pm

If I remember correctly the four bolts that hold the sump plate are are threaded right through into the crankcase ?.... so maybe I can remove one of those and see how much oil has gathered in the crankcase tomorrow morning.

Cheers
Alan
1939 VH Redhunter;1942 RN WNG;1951 Triumph 6T Thunderbird;1970 BSA B175 Bantam;1986 Yamaha SRX600 single
http://cloggymoore.wix.com/triumph-pre-unit-6t

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robjameson
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Re: Rebuilt 1939 VH wet sumping

Postby robjameson » Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:15 pm

I had this happen to me on a late VH, as I was cleaning it to sell.

Presumably the bike knew I was selling it so decided to act up. You haven’t threatened it have you Alan?

Actually what I found was some detritus had unseated the ball valves on the oil pump, and in a couple of weeks it completely wet sumped. When I removed and cleaned the pump it started behaving again.

My current VH used to have a weak scavenge, caused partially by a knackered pump and partially by a loose scavenge pipe in the crank case. That used to smoke on start up until I repaired the loose scavenge and fitted a Morgo plunger pump.
Rob Jameson
AOMCC Member Number 4068
1957 Ariel VH
1956 Ariel KH (LARGE project!)
2016 Honda CBR600RR

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dave.owen
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Re: Rebuilt 1939 VH wet sumping

Postby dave.owen » Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:21 am

Alan, worth checking that the plug in the timing case holdi g the relief ball and spring isn't proud of the surface causing oil to leak between the pump and case.
Dave
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