Square Four MkI restoration complete - almost....

Singles, twins and fours.
Gui.dorey
Holder of a Nylon Anorak
Holder of a Nylon Anorak
Posts: 164
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Square Four MkI restoration complete - almost....

Postby Gui.dorey » Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:55 pm

Gave up for today. Today she didn't fire once. After a few attempts the plugs are definitely wet. Still not sure why she is not strating. Too advanced? Too retarded? Too rich and flooding?
I'll try Paul Jameson's method next time and re check the timing. Thanks for all the tips as always.
Cheers
Gui

User avatar
simon.holyfield
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Posts: 3808
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:16 pm
Location: Norfolk
Contact:

Re: Square Four MkI restoration complete - almost....

Postby simon.holyfield » Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:45 pm

Re. The timing. You've checked both the ignition and the valve timing? I got the valve timing wrong several times when I built my engine. I found it quite confusing that the crankshafts roll in different directions.
cheers

Simes

'51 Square Four,
'58 Huntmaster,
'42 W/NG,
'30 Model A
http://ariel-square-four.blogspot.com

Gui.dorey
Holder of a Nylon Anorak
Holder of a Nylon Anorak
Posts: 164
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Square Four MkI restoration complete - almost....

Postby Gui.dorey » Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:34 pm

Yes, valve timing according to Bruce Longmann's method and it was spot on to maybe 1 deg. I had to repeat it about 3 times before I got it, and did get confused as well at the beginning. Again,I believe it's something with the mixture because she ran twice for a few seconds before going out and didn't sound that bad. If either the valve or ignition timing was completely off, she wouldn't have run at all. I'll just have to keep at it.

User avatar
simon.holyfield
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Posts: 3808
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:16 pm
Location: Norfolk
Contact:

Re: Square Four MkI restoration complete - almost....

Postby simon.holyfield » Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:11 pm

Gui.dorey wrote:I'll just have to keep at it.


I think you're right. Mine is not so easy to kick over from cold, and it was worse when the engine was tight. Those seven Maudes Trophy schoolboys must have either been pretty hefty or been kicking over a hot engine.

Another thought - I have my kickstart mounted just high enough to clear the toolbox and even then I start the kick from maybe 10 o'clock, to maximise torque on the starter. Of course, this limits the amount the engine turns over.
Last edited by simon.holyfield on Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
cheers

Simes

'51 Square Four,
'58 Huntmaster,
'42 W/NG,
'30 Model A
http://ariel-square-four.blogspot.com

john.whiting
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Posts: 1665
Joined: Sun May 22, 2011 2:10 pm
Location: Brisbane QLD
Contact:

Re: Square Four MkI restoration complete - almost....

Postby john.whiting » Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:09 am

in those days schoolboys played 50 a side rugger every afternoon on fields of bare pebbles,and had cold showers to keep their minds on Greek and Latin..........so maybe they were putting some force into the crank.

User avatar
Bob.Murphy
Holder of a Silver Anorak
Holder of a Silver Anorak
Posts: 945
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:32 pm
Location: Kirkliston, on the West side of Edinburgh.
Contact:

Re: Square Four MkI restoration complete - almost....

Postby Bob.Murphy » Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:24 pm

john.whiting wrote:in those days schoolboys played 50 a side rugger every afternoon on fields of bare pebbles, and had cold showers to keep their minds on Greek and Latin.........


Ah yes; I remember those days (Boarding School in the 50's) :lol: .

Bob.
My avatar shows the late Len Rich in 1970 with the bike I now have - a 1958 Ariel VH

User avatar
paul.jameson
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Posts: 2088
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:04 pm
Location: Herefordshire
Contact:

Re: Square Four MkI restoration complete - almost....

Postby paul.jameson » Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:22 pm

The schoolboys were kicking over a Cammy, so 600cc at most with easy to turn roller big ends and ball mains. A 1000cc engine with lots of whitemetal bearings is much more difficult to turn.
Paul Jameson
36 4G, 37 VH, 54 KH(A), 75 Healey 1000/4, 52/53 ex ISDT KHA (project).
Former Machine Registrar & Archivist, General Secretary and Single Spares Organiser (over a 25 year period).
Now Archivist once more - but not Machine Registrar.

Ian.McCandlish
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 12:26 am
Contact:

Re: Square Four MkI restoration complete - almost....

Postby Ian.McCandlish » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:23 pm

Sorry I'm a bit late to the party, but I find my '49 Sq.4 starts with the bi-starter halfway out and with the throttle slightly open. I always give it 4 kicks with the ignition off to get some fuel into the cylinders, then off we go! If I try to start it with the lever fully out it wont go!

Old bikes are like people they all have their own foibles

Regards

Ian

Gui.dorey
Holder of a Nylon Anorak
Holder of a Nylon Anorak
Posts: 164
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Square Four MkI restoration complete - almost....

Postby Gui.dorey » Thu May 02, 2019 6:54 pm

Uhuuuuuu!!! She‘s running!!!
Sorry for the poor video but not enough hands :)

In the end it went like this:
Tried Paul Jameson‘s trick and she fired, but didn‘t start.
Re tried a few times and sometimes she would fire, sometimes not.
I then closed the bistartet completely and opened up the throttle a bit. After a few attempts she finally burst to life with an amazing sound!

She would want to die however if I closed the throttle, until I pulled the bi-starter to the mid position. She then seemed to be happy that way. Then I noticed the massive oil leak at the front of the engine and shut her off immediately and the fun was over. The oil line to the rockers came apart at the soldered seam near the fastening to the rocker box. so will have to fix that. Didn‘t have time to check the pressure gauge either.

Very excited but time to rest my kicking leg. It‘s been a looong time since my rugby days as second row, but I do notice my leg muscles are coming back - nearly ready for the scrum, I‘d say.
Attachments

[ Play Quicktime file ] D275EB88-5455-49FD-9A73-4A652548A6D4.MOV [ 16.62 MiB | Viewed 695 times ]


User avatar
simon.holyfield
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Posts: 3808
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:16 pm
Location: Norfolk
Contact:

Re: Square Four MkI restoration complete - almost....

Postby simon.holyfield » Thu May 02, 2019 11:04 pm

Excellent news Gui, well done!

I had a oil line with a duff joint too. Couple of tips: did you use a copper washer at the rocker box joint? A fibre one lasts for a while but will eventually burn and leak.

Secondly, do you have the rocker oil line and the gauge line the right way round? Contrary to what you might expect, the gauge is the larger of the two.
cheers

Simes

'51 Square Four,
'58 Huntmaster,
'42 W/NG,
'30 Model A
http://ariel-square-four.blogspot.com


Return to “Four stroke”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests