1958 VH First Ariel ride after 45 years.

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steve.clarke
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Re: 1958 VH First Ariel ride after 45 years.

Postby steve.clarke » Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:16 pm

robjameson wrote:I've totally stripped and rebuilt my hydraulic brake, it uses two mini slave cylinders giving it a tls. It's a very clever thing, I'll try to draw up some diagrams sooner or later

I take you mean mini as per mini cooper,so easy enough to get piston seals boots etc?
57VH 58VH 56HS IN A 58FH Frame, mortal remains of a 57NH 1999 FZS 600

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robjameson
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Re: 1958 VH First Ariel ride after 45 years.

Postby robjameson » Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:37 am

Yes, absolutely, I had to replace the old slaves because they had badly corroded bores and honing them didn't work, so I walked in to the local independent motor factors with the old ones, matched them up to some new ones they had on the shelf and walked out 5 minutes later minus a massive £9.90 for the pair.

The mintex shoes I bought online from a specialist mini dealer but they were only £14 for an axle worth so I have a spare set too.

Not only are these hydraulic brakes better than the original, but also cheaper to run and easier to get parts for!
Rob Jameson
AOMCC Member Number 4068
1957 Ariel VH
1956 Ariel KH (LARGE project!)

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steve.clarke
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Re: 1958 VH First Ariel ride after 45 years.

Postby steve.clarke » Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:53 am

Thanks for the info Rob nice to know it's easy to get the spares, certainly saved me a bit of searching around.
cheers Steve.
57VH 58VH 56HS IN A 58FH Frame, mortal remains of a 57NH 1999 FZS 600

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Keith.owen
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Re: 1958 VH First Ariel ride after 45 years.

Postby Keith.owen » Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:00 am

robjameson wrote:I've totally stripped and rebuilt my hydraulic brake, it uses two mini slave cylinders giving it a tls. It's a very clever thing, I'll try to draw up some diagrams sooner or later


Hi,
Although I don't have one of these machines, I'd certainly be interested in learning more about how the hydraulic brake modification was carried out.

BR,

Keith
Keith Owen
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1950 Rigid Ariel VH
1951 Rigid Ariel NH (under construction)
1973 Norton 850 Commando Interstate

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steve.clarke
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Re: 1958 VH First Ariel ride after 45 years.

Postby steve.clarke » Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:59 am

Keith.owen wrote:
robjameson wrote:I've totally stripped and rebuilt my hydraulic brake, it uses two mini slave cylinders giving it a tls. It's a very clever thing, I'll try to draw up some diagrams sooner or later


Hi,
Although I don't have one of these machines, I'd certainly be interested in learning more about how the hydraulic brake modification was carried out.

BR,

Keith

Ok Keith
I will be removing the front wheel some time soon for examination so I will post up some pictures as David Anderson would like to see it to, second trip out last weekend to the Kent weekender but the old gal developed ignition problems on the M20, not the Bikes fault mine, bad preperation I should have checked the ignition :roll: , Points closed up, dry wiper and the plunger worn, and the advance retard cable out of adjustment = less advance, sorted now as I had a brand new Lucas contact breaker set stashed away since nineteen canteen. sorted most of the oil leaks though, the rocker boxes and the rocker feed oil union were the worst, resoldered the union and fitted some proper R/B gaskets it had just silicone sealant gaskets no good as you lose tappet clearance the adjusters were right at the end of their travel sorted now though, so I will fit some new H/bars and a Morgo oil pump and sort all the running maintenance tasks before I let her loose again, still I am rediscovering old skills all good fun.
Happy Days Cheers Steve.
57VH 58VH 56HS IN A 58FH Frame, mortal remains of a 57NH 1999 FZS 600

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Keith.owen
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Re: 1958 VH First Ariel ride after 45 years.

Postby Keith.owen » Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:24 pm

Hi Steve,
Unless you've bought a Morgo pump, I'd suggest you hold off and see what the experience of others in the Forum/club might be, before 'shelling out' what is quite a lot of money.

I rather get the impression that the real benefit is to be had by the owners of square fours (don't know about the twins).

The rockers on singles really don't need massive amounts of pressure and 10 - 15 PSI (or much less on later bikes with the feed from the return) is the norm and there are mods to improve the oiling of the cam and followers that I don't think a different pump will obviate.

True, the oil from the plunger pulsates into the big end whereas I believe the Morgo gives a continuous stream. It'd be interesting to know if this makes any difference in real terms. Like you I am always interested in any real improvements that I might be able to make to the reliability/longevity of my machine.

I used to be plagued with rocker box leaks in the past with an NH. I think that the right gasket material coupled with the right amount of torque (not too much, just enough to stop things vibrating undone) on the bolts plus effective engine breathing seems to be the cure. Again, the actual oil pressure really isn't that high and the oil should drain into the wells and down the rocker tubes/tunnels before it ever gets high enough to think about existing via the rocker box/gasket union!

One thing that didn't occur to me until quite recently is that one should do up the unions on the oil feed banjos before doing up the screws on the other side of the rocker arm - these are just seals. I have been experimenting with different torque settings and recording them and I'd welcome comment; the rocker box bolt settings might not be ok for an alloy head though.

I hope you get back on the road before the nights close in too much and the weather breaks!

Keith
Keith Owen
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1950 Rigid Ariel VH
1951 Rigid Ariel NH (under construction)
1973 Norton 850 Commando Interstate

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Re: 1958 VH First Ariel ride after 45 years.

Postby steve.clarke » Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:45 pm

Hello Keith
I already had a couple of Morgo's for my project Ariels so wanted to give it a go, my observation so far is that oil return now is more of a pulse rather than a bubble on just over tick over, and at revs is more of a continuous stream,my thinking on the the Morgo was more towards a better supply to the big end,I think the top end has good supply as it works on the injector principle the jet being in the oil union body but I always blow the union through with a can of WD40 and most importantly I think, prime both union and oil pipe with a syringe during fitting giving the rocker shafts a few pumps to force oil all around, the bike has already had the timing chest oil mod so oil from the top is not an issue, (well unless it is cut off of course) I tighten the rocker fasteners the other way round pulling the screw up first then the union nuts I believe the caps should be pulled up on the shaft first otherwise it's more likely to unwind with the rocker action, and it lines up the oil hole in the shaft union end with the the union oil gallery, I don't often use a torque wrench I prefer to pull fasteners down by feel and sequential tightening just my old fashioned Railway Training, not many Torque wrenches out in the field, and they can lie, the rocker tunnel seals were leaking on mine when I put a torque wrench on the offside three head bolts the wrench broke but when I gave them a jerk the bolts came down about a 32nd of a turn gummed up you see. I find it is of more value to go around and nip up an engine when it's cooled after a run my head is now oil tight so far, the only time within memory I have pulled a thread is when I torgue'd up my Yam exhaust bolts and two snapped :x will do all the maintenance tasks arising before I take her out again and will update the post on any prob's will have to wait a week going on hols.
Cheers Steve.
57VH 58VH 56HS IN A 58FH Frame, mortal remains of a 57NH 1999 FZS 600

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Re: 1958 VH First Ariel ride after 45 years.

Postby Keith.owen » Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:37 pm

Hi Steve,
Given that the pump drive axle has to be removed from the cam (I've been looking on Drags website), how does the Morgo get it's drive - does it have a cog that engages in the drive chain, or something like that?

What other Ariels do you Have (if you don't mind me asking)?

Keith
Keith Owen
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1950 Rigid Ariel VH
1951 Rigid Ariel NH (under construction)
1973 Norton 850 Commando Interstate

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steve.clarke
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Re: 1958 VH First Ariel ride after 45 years.

Postby steve.clarke » Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:24 pm

Hello Keith
You are looking at the Morgo gear oil pump which drives from a special nut they do a plunger pump for the singles as well, exact copy of the Ariel pump except more capacity and no cutting needed I think unless you are running a short stroke 500 or something racing like, the gear Morgo is a bit overkill, have a look at the Morgo website they have detailed leaflets, no I don't mind you asking at all, I have a 1957 original VH restoration job and a 1958 huntmaster rolling chassis and gearbox with a 56 HS engine Bitsa which is my project on the bench at the moment, Oh and the original NH350 engine out of the 57 VH that's how it started life the previous owner had it from circa 1962 and must have blown the 350 bigend and swopped it for a 56 VH engine he got from a breakers for £15.00 :D (He could have had an all alloy engine for £30.00 but that was far to expensive :) ) I stripped the 350 crank and sure enough the cenrifugal dirt collector was blocked right up into oil way, I will post a few pics when I get home from work.
Cheers Steve.
57VH 58VH 56HS IN A 58FH Frame, mortal remains of a 57NH 1999 FZS 600

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steve.clarke
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Re: 1958 VH First Ariel ride after 45 years.

Postby steve.clarke » Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:45 pm

steve.clarke wrote:Hello Keith
You are looking at the Morgo gear oil pump which drives from a special nut they do a plunger pump for the singles as well, exact copy of the Ariel pump except more capacity and no cutting needed I think unless you are running a short stroke 500 or something racing like, the gear Morgo is a bit overkill, have a look at the Morgo website they have detailed leaflets, no I don't mind you asking at all, I have a 1957 original VH restoration job and a 1958 huntmaster rolling chassis and gearbox with a 56 HS engine Bitsa which is my project on the bench at the moment, Oh and the original NH350 engine out of the 57 VH that's how it started life the previous owner had it from circa 1962 and must have blown the 350 bigend and swopped it for a 56 VH engine he got from a breakers for £15.00 :D (He could have had an all alloy engine for £30.00 but that was far to expensive :) ) I stripped the 350 crank and sure enough the cenrifugal dirt collector was blocked right up into oil way, I will post a few pics when I get home from work.
Cheers Steve.
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ARIEL = 053.jpg
Re-engined NH 350 1957
57VH 58VH 56HS IN A 58FH Frame, mortal remains of a 57NH 1999 FZS 600


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