WNG petrol tank or not?

specifications, colours, contract nos, variations etc
FOR GENERAL ENGINE AND GEARBOX, USE THE FOUR STROKE TECHNICAL FORUM
User avatar
alan.moore
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Posts: 1334
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2014 1:29 pm
Location: Leicestershire UK
Contact:

WNG petrol tank or not?

Postby alan.moore » Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:25 pm

I have just stripped the paint off the tank fitted to my '42 WNG and have found chrome plating where the knee grip plates were fitted. I know that the tank may not be from the same date as the bike but I am sure that WNG tanks were not chromed. Looking through the sales literature the NH350 for one year only, 1951, was fitted with the same style of tank (no instrument panel and small tank badges). The 1951 NH tank is listed as 2 3/4 gallons part number 5000-51 whilst the WNG tank is 5000-40 2 5/8 gallons.

So.... are these two tanks the same and if not what are the differences.

The literature seems to show that this style of tank was only fitted to civilian bikes in 1951 (NH, VH and VB) .

SDC11999.JPG


Cheers
Alan
1939 VH Redhunter;1942 RN WNG;1951 Triumph 6T Thunderbird;1970 BSA B175 Bantam;1986 Yamaha SRX600 single
http://cloggymoore.wix.com/triumph-pre-unit-6t

User avatar
simon.holyfield
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Posts: 3592
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:16 pm
Location: Norfolk
Contact:

Re: WNG petrol tank or not?

Postby simon.holyfield » Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:45 pm

Wouldn't a 51 civilian tank have a pressure gauge hole?
cheers

Simes

'51 Square Four,
'58 Huntmaster,
'42 W/NG,
'78 CX500
http://ariel-square-four.blogspot.com

User avatar
alan.moore
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Posts: 1334
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2014 1:29 pm
Location: Leicestershire UK
Contact:

Re: WNG petrol tank or not?

Postby alan.moore » Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:44 pm

Simon,
The photos I've seen do not have an oil pressure gauge and none listed in the parts book. Drags says some may have one ?. The same tank was used for later years as well but not chromed just painted and after 1951 had the winged motif behind the Ariel badge.
1939 VH Redhunter;1942 RN WNG;1951 Triumph 6T Thunderbird;1970 BSA B175 Bantam;1986 Yamaha SRX600 single
http://cloggymoore.wix.com/triumph-pre-unit-6t

User avatar
paul.jameson
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Posts: 1956
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:04 pm
Location: Herefordshire
Contact:

Re: WNG petrol tank or not?

Postby paul.jameson » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:10 pm

The fact that you have studs holding the knee grip plates on says pre-war or early war years to me. Post war tanks had threaded bosses inside the tank so used bolts to hold the knee grip plates on.
So why the chrome? I would suggest that when the bike was sold for civilian use the new proud owner fancied a chrome tank with painted panels so that his bike looked more like the modern (post war) civilian machine.
Paul Jameson
36 4G, 37 VH, 54 KH(A), 75 Healey 1000/4, 52/53 ex ISDT KHA (project).
Former Machine Registrar & Archivist, General Secretary and Single Spares Organiser (over a 25 year period).
Now Archivist once more - but not Machine Registrar.

nevhunter
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Posts: 3871
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 9:42 am
Location: Victoria.. Australia.
Contact:

Re: WNG petrol tank or not?

Postby nevhunter » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:06 pm

The VCH uses the same tank. (Shape and size) Most W/NG tanks don't have the enamelled badge mounts. They used transfers. That tank could have been plated at any point in it's life after it left the factory. Nev

User avatar
alan.moore
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Posts: 1334
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2014 1:29 pm
Location: Leicestershire UK
Contact:

Re: WNG petrol tank or not?

Postby alan.moore » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:51 pm

Regarding the size of the petrol tanks, looking at the parts books and sales literature for the WNG, the VCH and NH the capacities are slightly different:

WNG tank capacity is 2 5/8 gallons (5000-40)

NH is 2 3/4 gallons (5000-51)

VCH is 2 1/2 gallons and in parts books is listed separate to the NH one as 'petrol tank small' (5000-52)

I am surprised that Ariel produced three tanks of the same design / shape with such a small difference in capacity but based on their desciptions this appears to be the case.

Regarding Paul J's mention of the change for the knee grip mounting plate fittings changing from studs to bolts early war: from what I can see in the parts books the stud and nut were still being listed for 1949 (5087-37) whilst the bolt is listed in 1951 (securing bolt 0513) so maybe the change was slightly later than thought?

Cheers
Alan
1939 VH Redhunter;1942 RN WNG;1951 Triumph 6T Thunderbird;1970 BSA B175 Bantam;1986 Yamaha SRX600 single
http://cloggymoore.wix.com/triumph-pre-unit-6t

nevhunter
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Posts: 3871
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 9:42 am
Location: Victoria.. Australia.
Contact:

Re: WNG petrol tank or not?

Postby nevhunter » Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:11 am

The only variation appears to be the reliefs at the front near the frame steering head, where cables and wiring go on some but there's no provision for it on others. Some have 2 bolt/nuts/ studs per rubber knee pad. some have only one. the majority appear to be bolts into a blind hole welded in fitting There is a 51 plain tank longer than the 3 I'm suggesting look to be the same pressing, and looks nothing like it It's a much more rounded shape. (Better looking) ALL fit the same frame mounts. The longer 51 one(s) go back past the nose of the seat more. None of the tanks are repro's Nev

john.mitchell
Holder of a Waxed Cotton Anorak
Holder of a Waxed Cotton Anorak
Posts: 561
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:47 am
Location: Forest of Dean
Contact:

Re: WNG petrol tank or not?

Postby john.mitchell » Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:07 am

I am surprised that Ariel produced three tanks of the same design / shape with such a small difference in capacity but based on their descriptions this appears to be the case. Alan

Was it not 4? There was also the tank produced for the 1939 250 OH and OH 4999-39 with the oil gauge in it which looks very similar
John Mitchell
Editor Cheval de Fer

User avatar
paul.jameson
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Posts: 1956
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:04 pm
Location: Herefordshire
Contact:

Re: WNG petrol tank or not?

Postby paul.jameson » Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:13 pm

I had two different panel tanks on my 1948 Square four at different times, the first being a "500 Single" sized tank and the second a Square Four sized tank which came to me from Canada. Both had the bolt fixing for the kneegrip plates rather than the stud arrangement.

Now it is perfectly possible that I am wrong, but it is also possible that Ariel didn't get round to changing the parts lists until some time after this particular change had been made. After all, it was pretty minor in the overall scheme of things.
Paul Jameson
36 4G, 37 VH, 54 KH(A), 75 Healey 1000/4, 52/53 ex ISDT KHA (project).
Former Machine Registrar & Archivist, General Secretary and Single Spares Organiser (over a 25 year period).
Now Archivist once more - but not Machine Registrar.

nevhunter
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Posts: 3871
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 9:42 am
Location: Victoria.. Australia.
Contact:

Re: WNG petrol tank or not?

Postby nevhunter » Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:01 am

It just came to mind the VCH probably has a bigger cutout at the bottom to clear the 500 engine. That would easily account for the reduced volume. (small as it is). even though the tank is sitting a bit higher as well. My son got in touch with an ex Ariel works "person" who worked in the "special projects " section which I understand was a small corner somewhere with sparse funding. This fellow moved to Australia (not as a convict) and HAD a plunger frame with a VCH engine and a magnesium BA gearbox project lending from new stuff he had been given as a token of service or at cost or something. It's about 40 years ago that the contact here was made, and I recall him saying to my son that VCH's weren't that common and nice to know there was an intact one about and that he was involved with their manufacture. I will see if I can dig up the name of said person as no doubt someone among you may then recall his name and position in the big scheme of things. Nev


Return to “W/NG Technical”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests