A gearbox should not exert willpower. However......

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andrew.chapman
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A gearbox should not exert willpower. However......

Postby andrew.chapman » Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:33 am

I am trying to swap the gearbox on a swinging-arm VH. It is fighting back.

Is there a way of doing it without taking the engine out or sawing the frame in half?
AndyC
http://www.foxwoodmotorcyclerandr.co.uk
BMW K1300GT 2009, BMW K1200RS 2002, Ariel VH 1954, Sunbeam S8 1952

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adrie.degraaff
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Re: A gearbox should not exert willpower. However......

Postby adrie.degraaff » Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:03 am

Yes, the engine can stay in if you take the magneto, deck and rear engine plate away.

It's much easyer to leave all in place and just swap gears.

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Re: A gearbox should not exert willpower. However......

Postby andrew.chapman » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:29 am

adrie.degraaff wrote:.....take the magneto, deck and rear engine plate away.


Thanks Adrie. That is encouraging. However, I have removed the magneto and dynamo and the only parts remaining are the gearbox itself and the right-hand engine plate. However I try to manoeuvre them, I can't get them out. Something is always in the way. Now that I know it can be done, I will keep trying.
AndyC
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BMW K1300GT 2009, BMW K1200RS 2002, Ariel VH 1954, Sunbeam S8 1952

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Re: A gearbox should not exert willpower. However......

Postby andrew.chapman » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:38 am

OK. I have tried it in every conceivable orientation and I now know for sure that it can't be done without further dismantling. The reason is that the magneto platform is an integral part of the right engine plate on my bike and can not be removed.

The solution is one of the following: remove the inner timing chest, remove the engine (possibly the simplest answer) or dismantle the gearbox and remove it in pieces.

The last solution gives me a problem because the replacement gearbox is fully assembled and I have no intention of pulling it apart again.

It looks like removing the engine is the most practical answer since it involves the least disturbance. This must be the most frustrating job I have done on the Ariel, although it pales into insignificance compared to replacing the clutch on the K12.
AndyC
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BMW K1300GT 2009, BMW K1200RS 2002, Ariel VH 1954, Sunbeam S8 1952

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Re: A gearbox should not exert willpower. However......

Postby adrie.degraaff » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:43 am

The deck is the timing deck - camdeck , wath ever it's called.

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Postby nevhunter » Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:04 pm

Just bite the bullet and remove the engine, if your gearbox is assembled. I have got the box out the back with the rear wheel and guard removed. But that is the pre-54 models, without a swingarm in the way. Nev

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Re: A gearbox should not exert willpower. However......

Postby andrew.chapman » Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:55 pm

All sorted now. I took the engine out and the plate and the gearbox came out pretty easily. Putting the new gearbox in was, as they say, the reverse procedure. The only slight hitch was that the spacer bushes were too loose for the new gearbox lug, so I had to make up some new ones. Just a few minutes on the lathe.
AndyC
http://www.foxwoodmotorcyclerandr.co.uk
BMW K1300GT 2009, BMW K1200RS 2002, Ariel VH 1954, Sunbeam S8 1952

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Re: A gearbox should not exert willpower. However......

Postby andrew.chapman » Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:27 am

It all went together very nicely and I was feeling quite smug when.....

I had no sparks from the magneto. It was working perfectly when I removed it but didn't work at all when I put it back. Joy.

However, on the recommendation of Steve Carter, I have fitted a Thorspark electronic, battery/coil ignition conversion instead. It is only wired-in temporarily at the moment and looks a bit of a mess but initial tests have confirmed that it works very well. The next step is to do the wiring properly so that you can't see any external evidence.
AndyC
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BMW K1300GT 2009, BMW K1200RS 2002, Ariel VH 1954, Sunbeam S8 1952

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Re: A gearbox should not exert willpower. However......

Postby john.nash » Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:09 am

So, how do you time the thorspark system, ?
Dynamically, with a strobe ? Getting a timing disc onto an ariel will be challenge ? On the timing side, it's going to lash you with oil wth the cover off and because of the dry clutch it's going to be pain on drive side ?

Aren't you going to need an on/off switch in circuit as well ?
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Re: A gearbox should not exert willpower. However......

Postby andrew.chapman » Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:21 pm

John,

All good questions. To time the ignition properly you do need to use a timing disc and a strobe light. That is a bit awkward on an Ariel. The good news is that you only need to do it once and you don't need to alter the timing by moving the magneto drive sprocket.

But, as it happens, I have another method. It is so easy to change the timing that you can do it very easily at the roadside in just a minute. You can time it roughly by using the mark that the supplier kindly put on the trigger unit. It is close enough to get the bike going.

Then what I did was to ride it. What I look for is for the pulling power to increase slightly when you back off the ignition timing from full advance but then to decrease slightly when you back it off a little further. I do it with the bike pulling up a slight incline. If it doesn't do that then it needs altering slightly. It's very easy to do in tiny increments.

In fact, since the trigger mechanism is completely waterproof, you can leave the cover off to make it even easier to adjust until you get it right.

In the end, that method was somewhat faster and rather less frustrating than doing it by the recommended method. It is also probably more accurate since it relates to actual performance rather than a theoretically "correct" angle.
AndyC
http://www.foxwoodmotorcyclerandr.co.uk
BMW K1300GT 2009, BMW K1200RS 2002, Ariel VH 1954, Sunbeam S8 1952


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