Trying to decide between two frames

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simon.holyfield
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Re: Trying to decide between two frames

Postby simon.holyfield » Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:26 pm

roger.fellows wrote:I seem to recall Simon Holyfield needing to make tank mounts.

Try his Amelia Squariel blog if you can't find it on here.


I recall the thread but it wasn’t me. Was this it?

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4968&hilit=lug
cheers

Simes

'51 Square Four,
'58 Huntmaster,
'42 W/NG,
'30 Model A
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Re: Trying to decide between two frames

Postby roger.fellows » Sat Dec 26, 2020 3:29 pm

I think it was, Simes, and you mention sketching a front mount for somebody??

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Re: Trying to decide between two frames

Postby john.whiting » Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:18 pm

Choice being reconstrust the tank mounts ,or bog in the pits in the other frame,and hope for the best ........bearing in mind that bike frames are much stronger than needed for solo use . You could also graft the two frames together ,using the best bits.

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Re: Trying to decide between two frames

Postby Paul_Linden » Sun Dec 27, 2020 8:56 am

The ‘best’ frame should be used, whether for a daily runaround or a concourse show bike. My personal choice would be the smooth frame and weld new tank lugs on.

The effort in making the pitted frame good (removing the powder coat, filling the pits etc) would appear to be excessive given the other option.
Square 4 mk1, Square 4 mk2, Ariel Colt, Matchless G12, BSA C12.

cmattina
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Re: Trying to decide between two frames

Postby cmattina » Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:13 pm

Thanks for opinions all.

Still seems to be a bit of a toss up. I'll probably go with the putting frame for now, but explore prices on getting new mounts welded on to the other frame.
Charlie Mattina
1950(ish) NH350
Ontario, Canada

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simon.holyfield
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Re: Trying to decide between two frames

Postby simon.holyfield » Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:17 am

cmattina wrote:Thanks for opinions all.

Still seems to be a bit of a toss up. I'll probably go with the putting frame for now, but explore prices on getting new mounts welded on to the other frame.


Really? Think of the risk. Those pits are telling you the frame is losing its strength, so there is a risk of bending, fracture and worse. There's no risk to replacing the tank mounts, just work.

Fabricating new tank mounts would not be difficult compared to retubing the pitted one.
cheers

Simes

'51 Square Four,
'58 Huntmaster,
'42 W/NG,
'30 Model A
http://ariel-square-four.blogspot.com

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Re: Trying to decide between two frames

Postby cmattina » Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:16 pm

simon.holyfield wrote:
cmattina wrote:Thanks for opinions all.

Still seems to be a bit of a toss up. I'll probably go with the putting frame for now, but explore prices on getting new mounts welded on to the other frame.


Really? Think of the risk. Those pits are telling you the frame is losing its strength, so there is a risk of bending, fracture and worse. There's no risk to replacing the tank mounts, just work.

Fabricating new tank mounts would not be difficult compared to retubing the pitted one.


I am not a welder or fabricator and do not have the equipment or space for that sort of work. The cost of doing that may be putting me to the point of parting the entire bike out ebay. I live in a very rural place (think Stornoway) so I getting large equipment/parts to people is not easy.

Some raise issue with the frame as is, but others have not. And it seems very similar to this frame: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=9885&p=72974#p72974
Charlie Mattina
1950(ish) NH350
Ontario, Canada

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Re: Trying to decide between two frames

Postby JohnnyBeckett » Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:51 pm

hi , i think if you can not get the frame done get rid of the frames and buy a good one :?: their is a lot of good frames out their if you look you will find one that just needs painting, that will save you a lot of time running around trying to get it done and it will save money in the long run and you can start to get on with your build :!:

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Re: Trying to decide between two frames

Postby Simon.Gardiner » Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:35 pm

cmattina wrote:.....I am not a welder or fabricator and do not have the equipment or space for that sort of work. The cost of doing that may be putting me to the point of parting the entire bike out ebay. I live in a very rural place (think Stornoway) so I getting large equipment/parts to people is not easy.


I think sometimes (lucky) folks on here forget that we don't all have access to comprehensive engineering facilities. I can do limited welding but otherwise the extent of my facilities is a bench/vice/file/hacksaw/hand power drill.
And the days when you could find a 'local' engineering shop/fabricator, especially one prepared to do small scale/one off work, are long gone even in the overcrowded UK. (Speaking from experience, when I started with Ariels forty-odd years ago there were three of four places I could go to for a rebore, in or around the town. Now there's only one place that I know of, in the entire county. As for machining and fabricating, probably have to go several hundred miles and if I've got anything other than a 'standard' engineering requirement I'm not keen on having it done by a total stranger who I've never met before and who very probably doesn't appreciate that what they've been given to work on can't be easily replaced if things don't go to plan - or if their view of the plan turns out to have been different to mine.)
Also, Johnny, we don't all have the contacts and can't all get to the jumbles that you can! I've spent years looking for some things, I'm sure I'll find something in the end but that doesn't work if it's the only thing holding up a project that I'd really like to finish!
So with apologies to you chaps (who I very much envy) with the space/facilities/skills (or contacts) to re-work frames and engines in less than a lifetime, my advice to Charlie (Mattina) is to go with the frame with the tank mountings right now, to at least get a complete machine built, and maybe keep an eye open for another frame (or a friendly travelling fabricator) in the longer term.
(Sorry - bit of a rant, but I do find the lack of being able to get things done that were simple and basic many years ago very frustrating. Maybe in a few years time I'll be able to 3D-print it all.....)

SG
'55 Huntmaster, '56 VH, ' 51 VH, '80 R100RT, '00 Sprint ST (but all those Ariel parts can only make one running bike...)

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simon.holyfield
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Re: Trying to decide between two frames

Postby simon.holyfield » Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:14 pm

You're right Simon, and my post was a bit insensitive to that point. It's very difficult getting stuff done around here too (North Norfolk) as the guys who have done it for years get older and retire - I can fabricate small stuff myself, I have a small lathe to make fasteners but the W/NG engine rebuild I did recently was the last job done by our local machine shop before they sold up.

I'm very much in the 'have a go' camp though, building skills and buying tools as I go. Five years ago I bought the first and only garage space I have ever had - for 10 years prior to that I worked in a 5 x 8 foot coal cellar under the stairs - it is surprising what you can do with basic tools, but, when I come to look for someone to line-bore the FH mains and rebore the barrels i too will be travelling miles, probably to London or Essex; painting is something else that is outside my skill set, but there are one or two folk quite nearby.

Coming back to the frames in question - when faced with the same situation on an AJS Model 30 many moons ago what did I do? I used the pitted one and rode it for ages - it's the one in my avatar.

So, sorry for any offence caused; I will wipe off the egg on my face. Whatever you do, hang in there and get that bike going, that's what is important especially during these testing times.
cheers

Simes

'51 Square Four,
'58 Huntmaster,
'42 W/NG,
'30 Model A
http://ariel-square-four.blogspot.com


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