early bikes

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brenton.roy
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early bikes

Postby brenton.roy » Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:57 am

Leon is a member of my VVMC.
He's particularly interested in Veteran motorcycles and has a collection that focusses on Australian built motorcycles - http://earlymotor.com/leon/index.htm
Leon was telling me that he is aware of sightings / parts / bikes of early Ariel make in Australia. He was particularly interested in finding out about the Tricycle.
I've told him about the forum and Adrie's bike - and that I really know very little about pre 1925 Ariels.
Being there are so few of these bikes around, he might be worth contacting directly to at least share ideas. While only a young bloke, he knows his stuff.
Brenton
'51,'56 Squares, '48 VH, '27 Model C, R67/2, Mk IV Le Mans, '06 Super Duke and Ariel projects.

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adrie.degraaff
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Re: early bikes

Postby adrie.degraaff » Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:26 am

I have contacted Leon some years ago but I beleave not getting reply.

If there is any Ariel tricycle or parts in Australia I would like to know about it, on this moment the tricycle built is on hold untill November to do the other things in live.

In 14 days I am meeting Ron Fellowes (old bloke on a bike) in Czechië, he was complaining about his seat, so I will give him an original 1910 FN saddle wich was collecting dust under my bed.
Last edited by adrie.degraaff on Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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brenton.roy
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Postby brenton.roy » Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:36 am

Hi Adrie,
when I see Leon again, I will ask him if he would contact you.
regards, Brenton
'51,'56 Squares, '48 VH, '27 Model C, R67/2, Mk IV Le Mans, '06 Super Duke and Ariel projects.

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Postby leon.mitchell » Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:47 pm

Hi All,

Yes we had very early Ariels out here in Australia - the earliest that I've found are tricycles that were imported by the Austral Cycle Agency in March 1898. Not the earliest motor vehicles in the country, but there were only a handful here at that time.

The attached photo appeared in The Australian Motorist in 1909 and supposedly shows one of these Ariel tricycles, with the rider claiming (in 1909) that he was "the first motorist in Victoria". Unfortunately he doesn't give a date, but let's assume 1898. If this trike is an Ariel, it pre-dates the "usual" Ariel trike, because it uses the de Dion Bouton motor mounted behind the rear axle. Unfortunately the front fork is not visible in the photo: I wonder if it has the Ariel-style brace in front of the steering head.

My question is: can anyone confirm that this trike is really an Ariel from 1897 or very early 1898? An advertisement showing or describing it would be great.

(If anyone is interested in early motor vehicles in Australia, do have a look at my on-line magazine "Serpolette's Tricycle" - http://earlymotor.com )

Thanks

Leon

ariel-tricycle-early.jpg
ariel-tricycle-early.jpg (41.96 KiB) Viewed 2583 times

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adrie.degraaff
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Re: early bikes

Postby adrie.degraaff » Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:14 pm

There is nothing in this photo pointing to Ariel, it has beaded edge rims where Ariel had wire.

This could be a De Dion (70% sure) built between 1896 - 1900, but there where more makes who payed for the right to built a tricycle with theire name on it.
The more patents you used the more you payed.
Last edited by adrie.degraaff on Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:42 pm, edited 4 times in total.

leon.mitchell
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Re: early bikes

Postby leon.mitchell » Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:05 pm

Hi Adrie,
You sound very certain! The trikes were certainly called Ariel, and they certianly were described as having de Dion motors. The news item below is from the Sydney Morning Herald in March 1898, and was one of many articles and adverts referring to the "Ariel" machines. Note the mention of "late Dunlop" which seems to add a bit of credibility.
Did Ariel build a trike with a de Dion motor in front of the axle?
(It wasn't uncommon to pretend that a machine was made by a certain maker, where in fact it was made by another, so it's possible that the trikes called Ariel weren't in fact Ariels. I'm just trying to get to the facts of the story.)
Cheers
Leon

1898-03-23-p6-smh-austral-a.jpg
1898-03-23-p6-smh-austral-a.jpg (34.98 KiB) Viewed 2543 times

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brenton.roy
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Postby brenton.roy » Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:19 pm

Hi Editor John, is this the makings of a story for Cheval?
'51,'56 Squares, '48 VH, '27 Model C, R67/2, Mk IV Le Mans, '06 Super Duke and Ariel projects.

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Postby leon.mitchell » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:05 am

I'm happy to provide it once I understand it!

Leon

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brenton.roy
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Postby brenton.roy » Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:01 am

I would say that many of us are very interested in the very early Ariels, but know little about them. I've never seen one out of a photograph pre 1930.
I know the club has a '20's V twin - '25? I'm only aware of Tony B's '20 and Adrie's bikes on this forum. There are likely others though.
It occured to me that many of those who are an age to be the holders of this knowledge are not likely to be computer users. The Cheval goes to everyone.
It would be good to collect as much information as we can, while we can.
'51,'56 Squares, '48 VH, '27 Model C, R67/2, Mk IV Le Mans, '06 Super Duke and Ariel projects.

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brenton.roy
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Postby brenton.roy » Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:21 pm

I found this image on my computer, but can't remember where it came from, labelled "Veteran Ariel's"
Attachments
Veteran Ariels.jpg
'51,'56 Squares, '48 VH, '27 Model C, R67/2, Mk IV Le Mans, '06 Super Duke and Ariel projects.


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