Black Ariel & sidecar?

Bikes or not. Whatever
Ian.Taylor
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Black Ariel & sidecar?

Postby Ian.Taylor » Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:16 am

Is there anyone here that has a Black Ariel with Sidecar?
If so how do you like it ?
Average cruising speed etc.

My buddy here in Canada has a lead on a period looking sidecar for my 31 VF .
My 31 presently loves cruising between 30-48 mph.I mostly ride at 47 mph and will cruise at 55 no problems.
My wife would love to join me on these country back road rides but I have no pillion seat and no way will she climb on my 36 Norton ES2..lol but she will get in a sidecar.
basically I'm asking is what should I expect with a car attached.
Thanks Guys

john.whiting
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Re: Black Ariel & sidecar?

Postby john.whiting » Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:14 am

I can guarantee a steep learning curve.........Dunno about there,here old sidecars have to be re engineered ,bodies must be rigidly bolted to frames,not spring suspended as is traditional.Which means you need a sprung wheel on the sidecar frame.......you also need a brake ,which old sidecars didnt have .

Ian.Taylor
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Re: Black Ariel & sidecar?

Postby Ian.Taylor » Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:43 pm

Thanks John
My biggest concern is the brakes. They are marginal at best and with a sidecar to haul down worries me a bit.

nevhunter
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Re: Black Ariel & sidecar?

Postby nevhunter » Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:29 am

They are not as good as the cast drum brakes for sure. You might play with softer linings and relieve the trailing shoe so it wears quicker and allows the cam to keep operating the other shoe effectively.. I've done that for years where the brakes are less than impressive. With the chair, use your gears more on downhills rather than rely solely on the brakes on a long downhill . Nev

Ian.Taylor
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Re: Black Ariel & sidecar?

Postby Ian.Taylor » Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:44 am

Thanks Nev.One thing it does have is engine braking .I'm still waiting for photo's of the side car.I'm told it will look nice attached to the 31.

nevhunter
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Re: Black Ariel & sidecar?

Postby nevhunter » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:02 am

Many of the "chair"s used in Australia were Locally made and designed and the way they are attached and sprung vary immensely. The more rigid , heavier and wider, generally the better they corner but road shocks are transmitted to the frame a lot more on some than others. I generally would prefer a 4 point attachment.( Easier on the frame) which I think most original UK frames were. Where you might include rubber or sometimes a spring, depends on the design concept. sometimes it's detrimental and other times a requirement. I've seen some very compromised attachments done. It pays to get back to the Makers concept if you can.. The toe in and lean are a separate issue covered by many discussions but there are a few accepted basics. Too much trail in the steering will make for more effort needed on the handlebars when accelerating or braking. the sidecar wheels location forward of the rear wheel is also an issue for discussion.. early models had it closer to the rear wheel extended centerline and later it went more forward . Side car wheel braking is unusual even though it seems like a good idea. Nev

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Re: Black Ariel & sidecar?

Postby Dave.Thomas » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:18 am

I had a sidecar thrown in when I bought my ‘26 Sunbeam longstroke , I fitted it for a while a few years ago. I wasn’t keen on the side loads it put on the bike, if I were to do it again, I’d put stiffer spokes in and maybe fatter rims. It was an adventure to ride but obviously puts a lot more stress on brakes and power train, and mine was still on stock gearing, so that would be best lowered for long term use. I managed to get up Sunrising Hill at Banbury but it held traffic up wherever you went unless you thrashed it. Solo mine would cruise at 50 all day but this dropped to 40 with the chair and seemed a lot more hot and bothered ( with good reason). Certainly give it a try but it puts a lot of strain on 80+yr old metal
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Ian.Taylor
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Re: Black Ariel & sidecar?

Postby Ian.Taylor » Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:41 am

The Sunbeam does look nice !
If the sidecar looks like a good match for the 31 , I may try it and if I dislike it.off it comes..lol

Who Knows My wife may dislike it .Won't know until we try

john.whiting
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Re: Black Ariel & sidecar?

Postby john.whiting » Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:37 am

I suggest your first stop is the road authority.......see what design is acceptable......In Queensland ,the traditional method of suspending the passenger body on springs ,and having a rigid sidecar frame is not allowed......The passenger compartment must be rigidly fixed at four widely spaced points........consequently ,the wheel needs to be sprung.........this isnt difficult if you design a frame from scratch,but most traditional frames dont have enough forward structure ,and the passenger body is overhung from midpoint forward.........which is logical,as the passenger weight is concentrated rearward.I also think an effective brake is essential for the added weight .......I would use a hydraulic disc.......and hide it with a mudguard......Water protection is also required ,as the spray from the wheel is more or less level with the passenger....

nevhunter
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Re: Black Ariel & sidecar?

Postby nevhunter » Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:29 am

Maybe that varies from state to state John. In Vic IF they are pre 48, clubs can do the roadworthy and IF it's an original attach thing, I just state so, when I do the roadworthy. Anything suss I won't do. Later stuff probably needs an engineer's certificate and I believe that's fair enough when some of the efforts I've seen have to be dealt with. Sprung rear wheels and sidecar wheels are not easy to design that WILL NOT LEAN/roll TOO FAR for comfort. I'm not sure the authorities have thought it through properly, if they rule out unsprung frames . After all an empty Prime mover is just about unsprung and the CABs of them ARE sprung. Go carts are not sprung and usually win hill climbs against everything. The hydraulic brake setup will be better than anything mechanical but how's that likely to be done on a veteran?. Probably better to have the S/C underbraked compared with the other rear brake as the weight transfer is hard to predict.ie If you are on a limit left turn downhill there may be NO weight on the S/C wheel essentially so it's just going to lock.. I've been riding chairs for longer than I wish to think about including delivery of truck engines in them. They are hard on the bike frame often making it out of line eventually and the engine wheels and gearbox work harder. It does "ruin a good bike" but they had their uses at the time. It does need a bit of extra "anticipatory" ability. I'd still prefer one to a 3 wheeler. They are not everyone's cup of Tea. Nev


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