bike identification

Anything about Ariels
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alan.moore
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Re: bike identification

Postby alan.moore » Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:45 pm

Mike
The fact that there is not trace of the registration number on the DVLA database online check does not mean the bike does not still exist.

Starting in the mid 1970's when you 'taxed' a vehicle with the local licensing authority or post office, using the RF60 / VE50 old buff logbook the logbook would be cancelled, the vehicle details entered on the then new computer system and a V5 registration document issued by DVLA.

If a vehicle was not 'taxed' during this period its details would not be entered onto the computer. In the 1980's DVLA dictated that anyone with a vehicle that had not been road taxed and issued with a new 'computerised' V5 registration document should apply to DVLA and exchange their old logbook for a V5 document. The vehicle details would then be entered onto the computer system. They allowed such 'updates' to be carried out until 1983.

So if the owner did not request a new style V5 document by 1983 the vehicle details would not be entered onto the computer system and the authority to use the registration number on the relevant vehicle would be lost.

There was also a period in the 1990's where the computerised details of vehicles that were on the computer system, but had not been 'taxed' for 3 or more years, were removed from the main system (they were running out of computer storage space) and put on a backup system which is based on microfiche records.

DVLA will reinstate a vehicles original registration details even if they had not been informed that it still existed prior to the 1983 cut off date. In order to do this they must be provided with the original buff logbook and the vehicle must be inspected by a recognised body (usually an owners club) to make sure the logbook (frame / chassis number) does relate to that vehicle and that the vehicle is substantially composed of period parts. They will also accept other official documents if they bear the registration number AND frame / chassis number but are very strict on what they will accept.

So the bike may be sat somewhere waiting to be rediscovered or it may have been exported without having been entered on the DVLA computer system.

Cheers
Alan
1939 VH Redhunter;1942 RN WNG;1951 Triumph 6T Thunderbird;1970 BSA B175 Bantam;1986 Yamaha SRX600 single
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adrie.degraaff
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Re: bike identification

Postby adrie.degraaff » Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:32 pm

I have found the house in the picture 1 Lyndhurstroad, https://www.google.nl/maps/@51.2254182, ... 312!8i6656

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adrie.degraaff
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Re: bike identification

Postby adrie.degraaff » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:04 pm

For the Sherlock's among us, i have bought this 1947-48 unrestored 350cc from an advert in "Old bike market" 1700? pounds some 12 ? years ago, maybe the sellers telephone number is still the same, he had a prived trials ground behind the house.
If i remember well the advert was left bottem page.

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Re: bike identification

Postby Mike Smith » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:26 pm

Thanks again for the great information.

My father owned this bike and lived in Reigate up until the 50's at which time he purchased a larger Ariel and made a sidecar for it. There are photos but they do not show the bike very well. He always had Ariel bikes as far back as I can remember.

My fathers name is Thomas H. R. Smith, his brothers name was Jack Smith, both brothers were into bikes during the 40's and belonged to the R.R.N.D.M.C. I have contacted this Reigate/Redhill club but they have no records going back that far?

If any members are able to locate this exact bike or log book I would be more than willing to pay a premium finders fee.

Thank you.

Dr. Michael Smith
ontario1950@gmail.com

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adrie.degraaff
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Re: bike identification

Postby adrie.degraaff » Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:23 pm

Here an update, the 350 i bought was frame BP 8428 engine bk 5748, so maybe Paul Jameson can thell if this could be the same as Mr. Smith's Ariel.

This is a difficult process becouse i am depending on others as it being sold on twise.
I don't want a finders fee.

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adrie.degraaff
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Re: bike identification

Postby adrie.degraaff » Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:17 am

I can see in the Dutch database that the first English number is given on 06-06-1947 to my Ariel, so it's still spot on also with the weather and trees but no 100% connection with mr. Smith yet.

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Re: bike identification

Postby Mike Smith » Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:43 pm

Adrie:
Any word on the bike identification yet?
Thank you.
Dr. Michael Smith

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adrie.degraaff
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Re: bike identification

Postby adrie.degraaff » Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:40 am

Still waiting on the Dutch government for the English plate number, (my last possible chance), i know where the motorcycle is.

Normaly when buying an English motorcycle i am getting the V5, a logbook, taxdisces and a numberplate.

In this case there was only the V5 wich was send to the DVLA with my name on it as buyer and they have send it to me, after getting the Dutch papers the V5 is send back to the DVLA again so they can sell it.

I am keeping the English numberplates in archive but not this one.

I am sure it is the same motorcycle but missing the luck to proof it becouse of the name protection.

I was hoping Paul Jameson could make a (dealer) connection with frame BP 8428 engine BK 5748 but nothing there.

Maybe someone can connect LPB614 to the date 06-06-1947 .

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Re: bike identification

Postby paul.jameson » Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:40 pm

Now that you have given me some more information I can provide some pointers. One thing I cannot do is to link engine and frame numbers with registration numbers except on the very rare occasions (maybe 1 in 5000) where the registration number appears in the Despatch Book. BK5748 / BP8428 went to Andover Motor Cycle Co in Hampshire, leaving the factory on 30 May 1947. Unusually, it had a 4.00 x 18 rear tyre, a 17T engine sprocket and is listed as Competition in the remarks column.

Andover was (and still is) a major British Army base.

LPB 614 is a Surrey registration so a different county from where the bike was despatched to. We can be certain that the bike was specially ordered due to its unusual specification. It was not a bike for the showroom stock. The registration date of 06-06-47 is not unreasonable, although more usually only 2 or 3 days elapse between despatch and registration. 30 May 1947 was a Friday, as was 6th June 1947.

The only surviving Surrey registration records are held by the Kithead Trust in Droitwich Spa. They are primarily interested in HGV registrations so may be unable to assist.
Paul Jameson
36 4G, 37 VH, 53 ex ISDT KHA (project), 54 KH(A), Healey 1000/4 (project)
Former Machine Registrar & Archivist, General Secretary and Single Spares Organiser (over a 25 year period).
Now Archivist once more - but not Machine Registrar.

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adrie.degraaff
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Re: bike identification

Postby adrie.degraaff » Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:42 am

Thank you for this info.

There could be a 18 inch rear tire in the picture but i don't see "competition".


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