7" half width hub brakes

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david weare
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7" half width hub brakes

Postby david weare » Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:02 am

Hi All

Another '55 Huntmaster question. (Sorry been posting loads of newbie questions)

Just wondering what the general consensus in the club is on these 7" cast iron HWH brakes.
Do people tend to 'Upgrade' them to something else?

I've given mine an initial adjustment.
Rear doesn't seem to do much at all - Also necessitates actively stepping on the rear brake pedal rather than pivoiting the foot on the foot peg.
Front brake gently slows the bike down and that is all.

Are their any improvement that can be made whilst keeping these brakes?
e.g. increasing actuating lever at drum side (Clutching at straws)

I suspect if I am to take this bike any distance the front wheel/ & brake may need to be replaced - perhaps with an 8" BSA SLS or similar.
But this may also mean the forks may need to be swapped too?

Perhaps I simple need to change my riding style to a gentle & unhurried?
Any counselling on this welcome.

D

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simon.holyfield
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Re: 7" half width hub brakes

Postby simon.holyfield » Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:40 pm

You can make these brakes work pretty well. Certainly we'll enough for Norfolk riding! You'll need to adjust your riding style if you are not used to 50s technology, but replacement soft linings and proper setup works wonders.

The biggest change for me came from using sandpaper, stuck to the brake drum, to bed the shoes in.
cheers

Simes

'51 Square Four,
'58 Huntmaster,
'42 W/NG,
'30 Model A
http://ariel-square-four.blogspot.com

david weare
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Re: 7" half width hub brakes

Postby david weare » Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:08 pm

simon.holyfield wrote:You can make these brakes work pretty well. Certainly we'll enough for Norfolk riding! You'll need to adjust your riding style if you are not used to 50s technology, but replacement soft linings and proper setup works wonders.

The biggest change for me came from using sandpaper, stuck to the brake drum, to bed the shoes in.


Hi Simon
OK that is good to hear.
Soft linings. Who or where would be a good place to start with that?

Sandpaper. So perhaps using hi bond carpet tape? Or contact adhesive then cleaned off with spirit?
Makes sense.
Which brand of shoe set would you recommend? (I ask that presuming there's a choice)

50s (Or 40s to be precise) technology truly is another world.
I used to have a A65T - '62 - and I thought the brakes on that were dicey.

will_curry
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Re: 7" half width hub brakes

Postby will_curry » Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:34 pm

When the 8" BSA brake was fitted to my sidecar I changed the fork bottoms and
kept the Ariel yokes in place. This allows all the BSA wheel fittings to be used . . .
BUT the Ariel forks are a little wider than the BSA so the rim had to be offset and
the wheel spindle doesn't protrude much from the nearside fork leg. I changed the
brake because I was worried about the Ariel brake fading - we lived in the Chilterns
at the time and the sidecar got used.

The Ariel half-sided brake works well enough for me but they do take some careful
setting-up, especially when new or used for any length of time badly adjusted.
Done properly, you can get quite a good contact between shoe and drum. I find
a reasonably heavy cable with a fair bit of length works better than the shop-bought
ones which are too short and somewhat flimsy. Another point I find is that wear in the
cam pivot doesn't help. Just don't expect stoppies.

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simon.holyfield
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Re: 7" half width hub brakes

Postby simon.holyfield » Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:45 pm

I've had three sets done in the last few years, most recently by these folks:

https://villiersservices.co.uk/index.ph ... &chapter=4

I've always used original shoes and had them relined with the softest lining available.

Bedding in, I use double sided sellotape stuck to the drum, and then I cut a strip of 60 grit paper to the exact width and circumference of the drum, and stuck it on. Then you work the whole back plate/shoe assembly back and forth until you have full shoe contact with the drum.

I've also used 60 grit emery tape:

https://ariel-square-four.blogspot.com/ ... e.html?m=1
cheers

Simes

'51 Square Four,
'58 Huntmaster,
'42 W/NG,
'30 Model A
http://ariel-square-four.blogspot.com

david weare
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri May 29, 2015 3:30 pm
Contact:

Re: 7" half width hub brakes

Postby david weare » Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:57 pm

will_curry wrote:When the 8" BSA brake was fitted to my sidecar I changed the fork bottoms and
kept the Ariel yokes in place. This allows all the BSA wheel fittings to be used . . .
BUT the Ariel forks are a little wider than the BSA so the rim had to be offset and
the wheel spindle doesn't protrude much from the nearside fork leg. I changed the
brake because I was worried about the Ariel brake fading - we lived in the Chilterns
at the time and the sidecar got used.

The Ariel half-sided brake works well enough for me but they do take some careful
setting-up, especially when new or used for any length of time badly adjusted.
Done properly, you can get quite a good contact between shoe and drum. I find
a reasonably heavy cable with a fair bit of length works better than the shop-bought
ones which are too short and somewhat flimsy. Another point I find is that wear in the
cam pivot doesn't help. Just don't expect stoppies.


Thanks Will.
8" BSA, yes a friend has this on his B31 and says it a good brake.

Cable
Yes I can imagine a heavier cable would help matters.
Was thinking that too.
Might I ask, how do you make up your cables?

david weare
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Re: 7" half width hub brakes

Postby david weare » Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:01 pm

simon.holyfield wrote:I've had three sets done in the last few years, most recently by these folks:

https://villiersservices.co.uk/index.ph ... &chapter=4

I've always used original shoes and had them relined with the softest lining available.

Bedding in, I use double sided sellotape stuck to the drum, and then I cut a strip of 60 grit paper to the exact width and circumference of the drum, and stuck it on. Then you work the whole back plate/shoe assembly back and forth until you have full shoe contact with the drum.

I've also used 60 grit emery tape:

https://ariel-square-four.blogspot.com/ ... e.html?m=1



Thanks again Simon - All really great info.

I Imagine stopping a SQ4 with one of these 7" HWH brakes can be interesting at times.

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simon.holyfield
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Re: 7" half width hub brakes

Postby simon.holyfield » Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:32 pm

david weare wrote:
simon.holyfield wrote:Thanks again Simon - All really great info.

I Imagine stopping a SQ4 with one of these 7" HWH brakes can be interesting at times.


Braking on the W/NG with the half width hubs is certainly better (though the drums are smaller). The SQ4 isn't too bad though, once you are used to it. The back brake is pretty powerful.
cheers

Simes

'51 Square Four,
'58 Huntmaster,
'42 W/NG,
'30 Model A
http://ariel-square-four.blogspot.com

will_curry
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Re: 7" half width hub brakes

Postby will_curry » Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:34 pm

Cables:

All but brake cables are made from DIY lengths from a friend
who restores bikes professionally. The brake cables I make from
inner and outer I bought a long time ago from a place in Sheffield.
It is slightly larger than standard, enough so that standard ferrules
don't fit the abutments on brake and handlebar. I have a number of
ferrules made up to accept the cable at one end and to fit into the
abutment at the other although I've modified some of the handlebar
controls to take the bigger ferrules. The outer has a wire winding
which is much finer than modern outers and the inner is a much closer
fit too which means that nipples have to be modified as well.
All are soldered with a soft solder and an electric iron and I take a
lot of care with opening the inner wire end out to ensure it can't pull
through.

The brake cables don't seem to wear anywhere nearly as quickly as the
modern cable - the handlebar nipple will wear before the inner.

On my wish-list: a solder pot and a tool to open out the end of the
inner - these have been described in other posts.

Mick D
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Re: 7" half width hub brakes

Postby Mick D » Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:55 pm

On my wish-list: a solder pot and a tool to open out the end of the
inner

Hi

I made a bird caging tool out of two short lengths of steel angle, drilled through then counter drilled - works fine.

My low tech solder pot also works a treat - the bowl is a stainless steel mini ladle bought online for about £3

Solder Pot.png
Solder Pot.png (277.6 KiB) Viewed 481 times


Regards Mick


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