VG500 33 OR 34 ?

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Kevin.Priest
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VG500 33 OR 34 ?

Postby Kevin.Priest » Fri Jan 01, 2016 6:46 pm

Hi I am struggling a bit trying to get my head around a bike I bought from Stafford last October sale and wondered if you can help.
I've spent hours looking at many websites, trying to locate pictures and info of 33 / 34 bikes and really havnt come across much at all .

Heres a link if you want to see the bike http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/22727/lot/248/

Obviously it looks old but that doesn't mean correct OR original but before starting a refurb I am trying to understand what its really meant to be.

Frame (Y) & engine number (CA) tie up to a 1933 but mudguards suggest 34.

But Looking at the 33 sales brochure the tanks ties up but not the mudguards (My tanks is chrome (its lost its paint) and has no holes for an enamel badge) although the mudguards in the 33 brochure says C section which these are not.

Looking at the 34 sale brochure the Mudguards tie up as they are Ribbed D section with a hinged rear but the tank is supposed to have a enamel "Ariel" Badge which it doesn't (There are no fixings for it either)

or is it just possible its a bitsa 33 and 34 , at a certain point in time ie when a new model was coming would the factory have done that?

I hope this doesn't sound to anal but I am trying to get this as right as possible and it means a completely different tank paint job depending on year.

Cheers

Kevin

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Re: VG500 33 OR 34 ?

Postby wayner » Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:14 pm

Hi Kevin,

I'm after 34 mudguards so if you find these are 34 and want to sell them I'd be interested in buying them.
Wayne Martin
1934 Cammy Square Four, 1943 WNG, 1934 twin port VH, 1927 Model E Supersport, 1971 Ariel 3, 1961 Triumph tiger cub trials, 1959 Triumph 5TA Bobber, 1962 Triumph T100, 1971 Yamaha YR5.

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Re: VG500 33 OR 34 ?

Postby paul.jameson » Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:18 pm

Hello Kevin,

Your bike is a matching numbers model VF3 which left the factory on 23rd June 1933. The normal changeover to the following year's model would be at the beginning of September BUT remember that Ariel went bust in 1932 so 1933 was something of a transitional year. So it would not surprise me at all if they had moved on to the 1934 type mudguards by June 1933. 1933, 34, and 35 rear mudguards are all different so clearly a lot of development was going on.

My impression of the bike, both at the time it was sold and looking again at the photos now, is of a pretty original machine. You will learn more as you strip the machine but it doesn't look to have been in the hands of a butcher to me.
Paul Jameson
36 4G, 37 VH, 53 ex ISDT KHA (project), 54 KH(A), Healey 1000/4 (project)
Former Machine Registrar & Archivist, General Secretary and Single Spares Organiser.

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Re: VG500 33 OR 34 ?

Postby Paul Slootheer » Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:19 pm

Kevin,
If you want to be shure the frame and engine number will give def. evidence about the year and more important: if they match! Ask the registrar about that. Frames with a letter Y prefix started in 1933. In that year Ariel started to rationalize the whole model range. So from 1933 onwards they used the same frames for all models they made. As you mention Y2242 could be very well a 1933 model. I once have had a 1933 VA33 which started with Y1919 and an engine which also started with CA12XX.
As far I can remember you can recognize a pre 1934 frontfork because the tubes where not tapered at that time. This started from 1934 onwards. The headstock bearings from a 1933 model are also different than the later ones I remember.
Sorry to say but sales brochures are not allways adequate and in fact an artist impression... Give the registrar a try!
Regards, Paul

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Re: VG500 33 OR 34 ?

Postby Kevin.Priest » Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:34 pm

paul.jameson wrote:Hello Kevin,

Your bike is a matching numbers model VF3 which left the factory on 23rd June 1933. The normal changeover to the following year's model would be at the beginning of September BUT remember that Ariel went bust in 1932 so 1933 was something of a transitional year. So it would not surprise me at all if they had moved on to the 1934 type mudguards by June 1933. 1933, 34, and 35 rear mudguards are all different so clearly a lot of development was going on.

My impression of the bike, both at the time it was sold and looking again at the photos now, is of a pretty original machine. You will learn more as you strip the machine but it doesn't look to have been in the hands of a butcher to me.




Hi Paul

Well , that's a surprise, why didn't I look at the gearbox ? 3 or 4 gears!
Many thanks for all that information its more than I hoped to get.
This club is fantastic the way info comes along.
Now off to look at the VF3 in the 33 brochure.

Ps I bought some engine bits of your son who kindly brought it to Stafford on the Saturday, could you please thank him very much it turned out exactly what I needed.

Cheers

Kevin
Last edited by Kevin.Priest on Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: VG500 33 OR 34 ?

Postby Kevin.Priest » Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:56 pm

Paul Slootheer wrote:Kevin,
If you want to be shure the frame and engine number will give def. evidence about the year and more important: if they match! Ask the registrar about that. Frames with a letter Y prefix started in 1933. In that year Ariel started to rationalize the whole model range. So from 1933 onwards they used the same frames for all models they made. As you mention Y2242 could be very well a 1933 model. I once have had a 1933 VA33 which started with Y1919 and an engine which also started with CA12XX.
As far I can remember you can recognize a pre 1934 frontfork because the tubes where not tapered at that time. This started from 1934 onwards. The headstock bearings from a 1933 model are also different than the later ones I remember.
Sorry to say but sales brochures are not allways adequate and in fact an artist impression... Give the registrar a try!
Regards, Paul



Hi Paul

Many thanks for the information, I am learning a lot here tonight.
I had tried the club registrar but didn't get a response so was unsure on how to move forward.
The forks are definitely not tapered so its all coming together now as a 33 with 34 mudguards.
Have you any pics of your old VA33 that you would be willing to share?
Cheers
Kevin

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Re: VG500 33 OR 34 ?

Postby Paul Slootheer » Fri Jan 01, 2016 9:11 pm

Hello Kevin, will see what I still got...
I could make a scan an post them tomorrow!
Regards, Paul

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Re: VG500 33 OR 34 ?

Postby Kevin.Priest » Fri Jan 01, 2016 9:28 pm

Paul Slootheer wrote:Hello Kevin, will see what I still got...
I could make a scan an post them tomorrow!
Regards, Paul


Paul

Great, Very kind of you .
ill keep a check over the weekend.

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Re: VG500 33 OR 34 ?

Postby Paul Slootheer » Fri Jan 01, 2016 9:50 pm

Kevin,
I found some digital photographs of my ‘once’ VA 1933! (which I never should have sell...)
As you can see its started like a machine with quite some work. Later I altered the gearbox because is was beyond repair.
Hope these pictures will help. Rear mudguard and stays/fenders are def. original. Front mudguard is from DeLuxe model which was a 4 speeder or a so called VB. This model became from 1935 on a 600cc sidevalve
The VF3 and VA3 where in fact ‘basic/economic’ models both with a 3 speed gearbox. The gearbox had a short run because it was only in use for one or two years I remember. It was a so called TP gearbox and the first box which was mounted in the frame by means of two lugs as with all the later Ariels. I still remember how difficult/impossible is was to get spares for that gearbox, so I choose for a CP which worked fine. Downside of this choice was the fact I could not use the petrol tank gearchange lever anymore. Hope this will help you some!
Cheers, Paul ;)
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Kevin.Priest
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Re: VG500 33 OR 34 ?

Postby Kevin.Priest » Fri Jan 01, 2016 10:30 pm

Paul Slootheer wrote:Kevin,
I found some digital photographs of my ‘once’ VA 1933! (which I never should have sell...)
As you can see its started like a machine with quite some work. Later I altered the gearbox because is was beyond repair.
Hope these pictures will help. Rear mudguard and stays/fenders are def. original. Front mudguard is from DeLuxe model which was a 4 speeder or a so called VB. This model became from 1935 on a 600cc sidevalve
The VF3 and VA3 where in fact ‘basic/economic’ models both with a 3 speed gearbox. The gearbox had a short run because it was only in use for one or two years I remember. It was a so called TP gearbox and the first box which was mounted in the frame by means of two lugs as with all the later Ariels. I still remember how difficult/impossible is was to get spares for that gearbox, so I choose for a CP which worked fine. Downside of this choice was the fact I could not use the petrol tank gearchange lever anymore. Hope this will help you some!
Cheers, Paul ;)


Paul
Many thanks for the photos, I don't know if my gearbox is good yet.
Anyway all info is helping

cheers

Kevin


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